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From: Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:35:20 +0100 
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Eine gute Bemerkung, Catherine!

Edson's review and listing may be useful for English-speaking people, but other important publications are unfortunately not taken into consideration, fx: the 'Lexikon zur Geschichte der Kartographie' ed. by Kretschmer, Dörflinger and Wawrik (Vienna, 1986); the new 'Atlantes Neerlandici' by van der Krogt ('t Goy-Houten, 1997-); the 'Atlantes Austriaci' ed. by Kretschmer and Dörflinger (Vienna, 1995); the multi-volume series on the history of cartography ed. by Galera y Monegal (Barcelona, 1990-); the journal 'Cartographica Helvetica' (Murten, 1990-); not to mention hundreds of other works in languages I do not read.

It would probably be helpful for potential readers of such listings if a remark like 'This bibliography is intended for an English-speaking audience' appears at the top.


Yours sincerely,
Markus Oehrli

******************************************************************

Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography Seftigenstrasse 264
Postfach
CH-3084 Wabern

**********************************************

Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64) Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59) E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>

******************************************************************


> ----------
> From: 	David Cobb
> Reply To: 	maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> Sent: 	Thursday, January 31, 2002 18:01 PM
> To: 	maphist@camail.harvard.edu
> Subject: 	Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> 
> From: <catherine.hofmann@bnf.fr>
> To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> Subject: Réf. : Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Une vision américaine sur la recherche en histoire de la cartographie au
> cours
> des 15 dernières années...
> A toutes fins utiles.
> 
> Catherine Hofmann
> 
> 
>   From: "tony campbell"
>    To: "*MapHist"
>    Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>    Reply-To: "tony campbell"
> 
>    I am happy to announce that permission was given for the mounting on
> the
	   'Map
>    History' website of Evelyn Edson's wide-ranging 9Bibliographic Essay:
	   History
>    of Cartography9 (from "CHOICE: current reviews for academic
> libraries",
>    July/August 2001)
>    <
	
<http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html>http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html
>    >.  The 'Works Cited' (which is separately linked) includes over 100
	   titles.

>    Have a look at the 'What's New' page < <
>    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html
>    >http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html > for recent developments.
> You
	   can
>    now, for the first time, search across the whole of the 'Map History'
> site.
> 
>    *****************************************
>    Tony Campbell
>    76 Ockendon Road
>    London N1 3NW
>    UK
> 
> **************************************************************************
> * 
> David A. Cobb						Tel. 617.495.2417
> Harvard Map Collection				FAX  617.496.0440
> Harvard College Library				Email:
> cobb@fas.harvard.edu
> Cambridge, MA 02138
> HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
> ************************** VERITAS
> ****************************************
> 
> 
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:19:15 +0100
From: "Dr. Zsolt Torok" <zoltorok@ludens.elte.hu>
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To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] coronelli
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Karel,

For additional and more recent information on the Libro dei Globi and other Coronelli globes see the volumes of the Globusfreund, the journal of the International Coronelli Society. 

'List-owner' Peter van der Krogt, who is our vice-president, would certainly help you in finding copies of the journal, but you can also find online information on the society's web site.

Zsolt
map and globe maker
member of the Coronelli Society
....................................

> Karel Kinds wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for the text by Helen Wallis in the facsimile Atlas of
> T.O.T Amsterdam 1971, of the Coronelli Atlas.
> 
> Who can help me?
> 
> Karel Kinds


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From: "Marcel van den Broecke" <cart.neer@TIP.NL>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 10:26:34 +0100
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Come on, Markus Oehrli,
I happen to know that Swiss schools have an excellent English curriculum at their High Schools!
Deborah van den Broecke - Günzburger
Cartographica Neerlandica
tel. +31 30 2202 396
fax +31 30 2203 326
e-mail: cart.neer@tip.nl
URL: www.ortelius-antiquemaps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:35 AM Subject: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'


> Eine gute Bemerkung, Catherine!
>
> Edson's review and listing may be useful for English-speaking people, but
> other important publications are unfortunately not taken into consideration,
> fx: the 'Lexikon zur Geschichte der Kartographie' ed. by Kretschmer,
> Dörflinger and Wawrik (Vienna, 1986); the new 'Atlantes Neerlandici' by van
> der Krogt ('t Goy-Houten, 1997-); the 'Atlantes Austriaci' ed. by Kretschmer
> and Dörflinger (Vienna, 1995); the multi-volume series on the history of
> cartography ed. by Galera y Monegal (Barcelona, 1990-); the journal
> 'Cartographica Helvetica' (Murten, 1990-); not to mention hundreds of other
> works in languages I do not read.
>
> It would probably be helpful for potential readers of such listings if a
> remark like 'This bibliography is intended for an English-speaking audience'
> appears at the top.
>
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Markus Oehrli
>
> ******************************************************************
>
> Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography
> Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography
> Seftigenstrasse 264
> Postfach
> CH-3084 Wabern
>
> **********************************************
>
> Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64)
> Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59)
> E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
> Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>
>
> ******************************************************************
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: David Cobb
> > Reply To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 18:01 PM
> > To: maphist@camail.harvard.edu
> > Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> >
> > From: <catherine.hofmann@bnf.fr>
> > To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> > Subject: Réf. : Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Une vision américaine sur la recherche en histoire de la cartographie au
> > cours
> > des 15 dernières années...
> > A toutes fins utiles.
> >
> > Catherine Hofmann
> >
> >
> >   From: "tony campbell"
> >    To: "*MapHist"
> >    Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> >    Reply-To: "tony campbell"
> >
> >    I am happy to announce that permission was given for the mounting on
> > the
>    'Map
> >    History' website of Evelyn Edson's wide-ranging 9Bibliographic Essay:
>    History
> >    of Cartography9 (from "CHOICE: current reviews for academic
> > libraries",
> >    July/August 2001)
> >    <
>
> <http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html>http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html
> >    >.  The 'Works Cited' (which is separately linked) includes over 100
>    titles.
>
> >    Have a look at the 'What's New' page < <
> >    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html
> >    >http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html > for recent developments.
> > You
>    can
> >    now, for the first time, search across the whole of the 'Map History'
> > site.
> >
> >    *****************************************
> >    Tony Campbell
> >    76 Ockendon Road
> >    London N1 3NW
> >    UK
> >
> >
**************************************************************************
> > *
> > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417
> > Harvard Map Collection FAX  617.496.0440
> > Harvard College Library Email:
> > cobb@fas.harvard.edu
> > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
> > ************************** VERITAS
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
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>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
> Unsubscribe from this list by sending a message to majordomo@geog.uu.nl
> with the following line in the body:
> unsubscribe maphist <email>
> where <email> is replaced by your email address.
>


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From: Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: AW: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:13:29 +0100 
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Sorry, Mr van den Broecke, that is not the point.

I desire to explain that Edson's listing is appropriate for an English-speaking audience. This has nothing to to with education at Swiss high schools, but much with the unfortunate behaviour of many academics, not to mention the general public, to ignore publications in other languages.

Therefore I would like to gratulate Ms Edson for her paper, insofar it appeared in an academic journal designed for an American English-speaking audience. For a Web edition, however, I (and I am sure also many Web users that join the page by accident) would like to find a much broader approach, especially in the bibliography. Fact is that publications are best understood when read in, or translated into, your own language.

Important is IMHO what you *expect* from a site like Tony Campbell's: a true gateway into the world of the history of cartography, *not* into the world of the English-speaking colleagues only. Of course Ms Edson's paper has its place on the Gateway site, but many more such papers from a Dutch, German, French, Russian, Japanese, Arabic ... point of view should be mounted there.
As long as you have no choice, a paper like Edson's should be clearly marked as 'designed by, and intended for, English-speaking people'. Others will be disappointed of its anglocentric bibliography that almost completely ignores what is done elsewhere.


Yours sincerely,
Markus Oehrli

******************************************************************

Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography Seftigenstrasse 264
Postfach
CH-3084 Wabern

**********************************************

Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64) Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59) E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>

******************************************************************


> ----------
> From: 	Marcel van den Broecke
> Reply To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Sent: 	Friday, February 1, 2002 10:26 AM
> To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Subject: 	Re: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> 
> Come on, Markus Oehrli,
> I happen to know that Swiss schools have an excellent English curriculum
> at
> their High Schools!
> Deborah van den Broecke - Günzburger
> Cartographica Neerlandica
> tel. +31 30 2202 396
> fax +31 30 2203 326
> e-mail: cart.neer@tip.nl
> URL: www.ortelius-antiquemaps.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:35 AM
> Subject: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> 
> 
> > Eine gute Bemerkung, Catherine!
> >
> > Edson's review and listing may be useful for English-speaking people,
> but
> > other important publications are unfortunately not taken into
> consideration,
> > fx: the 'Lexikon zur Geschichte der Kartographie' ed. by Kretschmer,
> > Dörflinger and Wawrik (Vienna, 1986); the new 'Atlantes Neerlandici' by
> van
> > der Krogt ('t Goy-Houten, 1997-); the 'Atlantes Austriaci' ed. by
> Kretschmer
> > and Dörflinger (Vienna, 1995); the multi-volume series on the history of
> > cartography ed. by Galera y Monegal (Barcelona, 1990-); the journal
> > 'Cartographica Helvetica' (Murten, 1990-); not to mention hundreds of
> other
> > works in languages I do not read.
> >
> > It would probably be helpful for potential readers of such listings if a
> > remark like 'This bibliography is intended for an English-speaking
> audience'
> > appears at the top.
> >
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> > Markus Oehrli
> >
> > ******************************************************************
> >
> > Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography
> > Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography
> > Seftigenstrasse 264
> > Postfach
> > CH-3084 Wabern
> >
> > **********************************************
> >
> > Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64)
> > Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59)
> > E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
> > Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>
> >
> > ******************************************************************
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: David Cobb
> > > Reply To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 18:01 PM
> > > To: maphist@camail.harvard.edu
> > > Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> > >
> > > From: <catherine.hofmann@bnf.fr>
> > > To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
> > > Subject: Réf. : Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Une vision américaine sur la recherche en histoire de la cartographie
> au
> > > cours
> > > des 15 dernières années...
> > > A toutes fins utiles.
> > >
> > > Catherine Hofmann
> > >
> > >
> > >   From: "tony campbell"
> > >    To: "*MapHist"
> > >    Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
> > >    Reply-To: "tony campbell"
> > >
> > >    I am happy to announce that permission was given for the mounting
> on
> > > the
> >    'Map
> > >    History' website of Evelyn Edson's wide-ranging 9Bibliographic
> Essay:
> >    History
> > >    of Cartography9 (from "CHOICE: current reviews for academic
> > > libraries",
> > >    July/August 2001)
> > >    <
> >
> >
> <http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html>http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html
> > >    >.  The 'Works Cited' (which is separately linked) includes over
> 100
> >    titles.
> >
> > >    Have a look at the 'What's New' page < <
> > >    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html
> > >    >http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html > for recent developments.
> > > You
> >    can
> > >    now, for the first time, search across the whole of the 'Map
> History'
> > > site.
> > >
> > >    *****************************************
> > >    Tony Campbell
> > >    76 Ockendon Road
> > >    London N1 3NW
> > >    UK
> > >
> > >
> **************************************************************************
> > > *
> > > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417
> > > Harvard Map Collection FAX  617.496.0440
> > > Harvard College Library Email:
> > > cobb@fas.harvard.edu
> > > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
> > > ************************** VERITAS
> > > ****************************************
> > >
> > >
> >  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> -
> >  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> > with the following line in the body:
> > unsubscribe maphist <email>
> > where <email> is replaced by your email address.
> >
> 
> 
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> 
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From: "Evelyn Edson" <eedson@PVCC.CC.VA.US>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:27:58 -0500
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Dear Colleagues:  I do apologize for the English-language orientation of my bibliographic essay.  The journal of the American Library Association, which commissioned the essay, specified books only (no articles) and those in the English language only.  It was designed for librarians in the U.S., wishing to order books for their collections.  Obviously many excellent works had to be omitted.  I would suggest that one of you write a supplement including some of these.

Evelyn Edson
Professor of History
Piedmont Virginia Community College
501 College Drive
Charlottesville, VA 22902
(434) 961-5384


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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:32:46 -0500
From: "William C. Barrow" <w.barrow@csuohio.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] New address for MapHist
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
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Is it possible to digest the messages?  I never like receiving list traffic as individual messages?

Cheers,

Bill

-------------------------------------------------- WILLIAM C. BARROW
Special Collections Librarian
Cleveland State University Library
2121 Euclid Avenue (NEW)
Cleveland, OH  44115
(216) 687-6998 (office)
(216) 687-2449 (Special Collections)
(216) 687-9328 (fax)
w.barrow@csuohio.edu
http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/ (Special Collections) -------------------------------------------------- Cleveland Memory Project:
http://www.clevelandmemory.org
Cleveland Digital Library:
http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/cdl/ --------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message -----
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: [MapHist] New address for MapHist


> Dear all,
>
> On 1 February 2002, MapHist (the Map History Discussion List) will move
> from the
> base it has occupied at Harvard University (where David Cobb was the
> list-owner
> since the list was created in March 1994) to the Faculty of Geographical
> Sciences of Utrecht University. I will act as the new list-owner.
>
> Utrecht University uses "majordomo" for its list-program, and since I do not
> want to moderate the list, several alterations are necessary.
>
> (By the way, David will not be taking it easy from now on. In addition to
> running a major university map library and all his other responsibilities, he
> will also be deeply involved in planning the International Conference on the
> History of Cartography, to be held in 2003 at Harvard University and the
> University of Southern Maine. We owe David our heartfelt thanks for all his
> efforts looking after MapHist [and us] during these past eight years.)
>
> NEW ADDRESS
> Almost all changes will happen behind the scenes. In order to post a message,
> the only thing you need to do as a subscriber is to change the address in your
> address book to:
>
> maphist@geog.uu.nl
>
> The address for subscribing and unsubscribing is majordomo@geog.uu.nl.
> (see also the instructions on http://www.maphist.nl)
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing, along with the address of the MapHist webpage,
> are added at the bottom of each message. The URL of the web page is also given
> in the header of each message (in some e-mail programs you must choose "all
> headers" to see this URL).
>
> OTHER NEW FEATURES
> To avoid MapHist subscribers receiving viruses and spam, and to minimize the
> number of non-MapHist-related personal messages, the following configurations
> are made in the majordomo program:
>
> 1. Only MapHist subscribers can post messages on the list. Be sure that the
> address at which you are subscribed is identical to the address from which you
> send messages. Messages from non-subscribed addresses will be sent to the
> list-owner for review.
>
> 2. No attachments are allowed. Since most viruses are sent as attachments,
> this
> policy will help prevent the distribution of viruses.
>
> 3. The maximum message size is 20,000 characters. This is enough for a message
> 4 to 6 pages long. This also helps stop the posting of viruses (and other
> attachments) since they are usually longer.
>
> 4. The program will prefix the subject heading with the term "[MapHist]." This
> means that when you receive a message from a friend, but the subject heading
> begins with "[MapHist]," the message has come to you via MapHist, and not
> privately directly to you. Therefore, when you see "[MapHist]" in the subject
> line, please do not reply with a personal message since it will be
> automatically
> distributed to all MapHist subscribers.
>
> All the best.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:21:10 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Text and Image Conference: Call for Papers
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<x-flowed>
Send to the old address.

>From: "Catherine Delano-Smith" <c.delano-smith@qmul.ac.uk>
> >To: <maphist@camail.harvard.edu>
> >Subject: Text and Image Conference: Call for Papers
> >
> >Dear MapHisters
> >
> >The enclosed Call for Papers has just come my way. You will see that MAPS
> >are mentioned under two headings, `Complimentarity' and `Image in Text',
> >although there may be things to be said about maps under any of the other
> >headings.  The organisers seem keen to have some map papers. It would be a
> >pity if sufficient map historians could not rise to the occasion to make a
> >reasonable impact in a literary gathering clearly interested in early maps
> >(and not just maps as metaphor!)
> >
> >I am hoping to offer a paper under the first heading (Complimentarity)
> >dealing with map style as text (diagramatic maps, if you like). If anybody
> >else is thinking of joining in-- on any topic--I'd be delighted to know.
> >
> >We could even agree to co-operate as a panel-- or panels--, with our own
> >sub-heading (I 'd be happy to act as co-ordinator or mediator with the
> >organisers--whom I do not know personally but they are not far from London).
> >
> > What the organisers have failed to indicate, I've just noticed, is the
> >proposed LENGTH of papers. I'll ask-- so watch this space as you think up
> >some good ideas!
> >
> >Catherine Delano-Smith
> >
> >
> >                     Text and Image
> >                  England 1500-1750
> >
> >The Fifth International Literature and History Conference at the University
> >of Reading
> >10-12 July 2002
> >
> >
> >                    Call for Papers
> >
> >The fifth Reading History and Literature conference will take place on 10-12
> >July 2002. Our theme is intended to attract both historians and literary
> >scholars; we also hope that historians of the visual arts will this time
> >take a bigger part than in the previous four conferences. We have in mind
> >five main strands or lines of enquiry:
> >
> >Complementarity. How have text and image complemented each other?  Examples
> >might include illustrations of printed texts by engraved pictures or
> >diagrams; the marriage of sculpture and inscription, particularly on church
> >monuments; and the appearance on maps of text for the purposes of
> >identification and explanation.
> >
> >Antagonism. How have text and image been affected by conflict between them?
> >The vexed relationship of inscribed word and image has been a significant
> >element of Judaeo-Christian history, and an especially important one during
> >the Reformation. Idolatry was one of the most damaging charges levelled
> >against the Roman Catholic Church by Protestant reformers who held the
> >misuse of images to be directly contrary to the Word of God revealed in the
> >scriptures.
> >
> >Image as text. How in the twenty-first century might we 'read' early modern
> >paintings, icons, maps, buildings and other visual media? To what extent can
> >early modern images be illuminated by contemporary theories about the
> >psychological efficacy of the visual image, or modern theories about the
> >power of the gazer?
> >
> >Images in text. How important were the visual arts in inspiring the efforts
> >of writers to create, in some of the early modern era's most memorable prose
> >and poetry, vivid mental images of things seen?
> >
> >Text as image. Increasing typographical sophistication encouraged publishers
> >to treat words as visual units which could be manipulated to create new
> >meanings. How did this idea of text as image blur or complicate the
> >relationship between the visual and the verbal?
> >
> >We invite submissions (approximately 500 words) and ideas for sessions from
> >all interested scholars.
> >
> >Deadline: March 1, 2002
> >Please send proposals to Professor Ralph Houlbrooke or Dr Adam Smyth.
> >
> >For more details, please visit http://www.reading.ac.uk/english/EMRC.htm
> >or
> >contact Adam Smyth (a.smyth@reading.ac.uk) or
> >Ralph Houlbrooke (r.a.houlbrooke@reading.ac.uk)
> >

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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:23:16 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] New address for MapHist
Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
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<x-flowed>
The digest option doesn't work yet. I am working on it.
Is there somebody among the audience with majordomo experience? Please mail OFF-list to peter@maphist.nl

Peter

At 16:32 1-2-2002, you wrote:
>Is it possible to digest the messages?  I never like receiving list
>traffic as individual messages?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Bill
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>WILLIAM C. BARROW
>Special Collections Librarian
>Cleveland State University Library
>2121 Euclid Avenue (NEW)
>Cleveland, OH  44115
>(216) 687-6998 (office)
>(216) 687-2449 (Special Collections)
>(216) 687-9328 (fax)
>w.barrow@csuohio.edu
>http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/ (Special Collections)
>--------------------------------------------------
>Cleveland Memory Project:
>http://www.clevelandmemory.org
>Cleveland Digital Library:
>http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/cdl/
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
>To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:32 PM
>Subject: [MapHist] New address for MapHist
>
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > On 1 February 2002, MapHist (the Map History Discussion List) will
>move
> > from the
> > base it has occupied at Harvard University (where David Cobb was the
> > list-owner
> > since the list was created in March 1994) to the Faculty of
>Geographical
> > Sciences of Utrecht University. I will act as the new list-owner.
> >
> > Utrecht University uses "majordomo" for its list-program, and since
>I do not
> > want to moderate the list, several alterations are necessary.
> >
> > (By the way, David will not be taking it easy from now on. In
>addition to
> > running a major university map library and all his other
>responsibilities, he
> > will also be deeply involved in planning the International
>Conference on the
> > History of Cartography, to be held in 2003 at Harvard University and
>the
> > University of Southern Maine. We owe David our heartfelt thanks for
>all his
> > efforts looking after MapHist [and us] during these past eight
>years.)
> >
> > NEW ADDRESS
> > Almost all changes will happen behind the scenes. In order to post a
>message,
> > the only thing you need to do as a subscriber is to change the
>address in your
> > address book to:
> >
> > maphist@geog.uu.nl
> >
> > The address for subscribing and unsubscribing is
>majordomo@geog.uu.nl.
> > (see also the instructions on http://www.maphist.nl)
> >
> > Instructions for unsubscribing, along with the address of the
>MapHist webpage,
> > are added at the bottom of each message. The URL of the web page is
>also given
> > in the header of each message (in some e-mail programs you must
>choose "all
> > headers" to see this URL).
> >
> > OTHER NEW FEATURES
> > To avoid MapHist subscribers receiving viruses and spam, and to
>minimize the
> > number of non-MapHist-related personal messages, the following
>configurations
> > are made in the majordomo program:
> >
> > 1. Only MapHist subscribers can post messages on the list. Be sure
>that the
> > address at which you are subscribed is identical to the address from
>which you
> > send messages. Messages from non-subscribed addresses will be sent
>to the
> > list-owner for review.
> >
> > 2. No attachments are allowed. Since most viruses are sent as
>attachments,
> > this
> > policy will help prevent the distribution of viruses.
> >
> > 3. The maximum message size is 20,000 characters. This is enough for
>a message
> > 4 to 6 pages long. This also helps stop the posting of viruses (and
>other
> > attachments) since they are usually longer.
> >
> > 4. The program will prefix the subject heading with the term
>"[MapHist]." This
> > means that when you receive a message from a friend, but the subject
>heading
> > begins with "[MapHist]," the message has come to you via MapHist,
>and not
> > privately directly to you. Therefore, when you see "[MapHist]" in
>the subject
> > line, please do not reply with a personal message since it will be
> > automatically
> > distributed to all MapHist subscribers.
> >
> > All the best.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> > Dr Peter van der Krogt
> > Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> > Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> > P.O. Box 80.115
> > 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> > e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> > MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
> >
> > YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> >
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YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:06:20 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["MapForum.Com" <mapforum@btinternet.com>]

>We have just uploaded the latest issue of MapForum.Com, the internet
>magazine about antique maps. Articles include:
>
>Collations: Four histories of the American War of Independence
>Checklist: Part 3 of the Mapping of New England, covering 1670-1700
>Ephemera: the Trade Card of John Marsh, book and map seller
>Curiosity: The Blockenberg Witches (with no mention of Harry Potter!)
>
>The Reader Services section contains more Reader's Letters than usual,
>and there are five Book Reviews.
>
>--
>The Editor
>MapForum.Com
>
>http://www.mapforum.com
>
>mapforum@btinternet.com

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From: "Ed Dahl" <edahl@iosphere.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:30:05 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
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To readers of "MapForum," issue 14:

The korrect spelling of a name misspelled more than 25 times in this new issue of "MapForum" is "McCorkle" (not "McCorckle").

    Barbara Backus McCorkle, comp. _New England in Early Printed
        Maps, 1513 to 1800_.  Providence: The John Carter Brown
        Library, 2001.  (ISBN 0-916617-53-X)

Nice book.

Nice issue of "MapForum."


EdWord Dahl, 1292 Montée Paiement, Gatineau (Québec)
     J8R 3K5  CANADA
INTERNET:  edahl@iosphere.net
TEL:  (819) 561-4029    FAX:  (819) 561-7753

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 9:06 AM Subject: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14


Non-member submission from ["MapForum.Com" <mapforum@btinternet.com>]

>We have just uploaded the latest issue of MapForum.Com, the internet
>magazine about antique maps. Articles include:
>
>Collations: Four histories of the American War of Independence
>Checklist: Part 3 of the Mapping of New England, covering 1670-1700
>Ephemera: the Trade Card of John Marsh, book and map seller
>Curiosity: The Blockenberg Witches (with no mention of Harry Potter!)
>
>The Reader Services section contains more Reader's Letters than usual,
>and there are five Book Reviews.
>
>--
>The Editor
>MapForum.Com
>
>http://www.mapforum.com
>
>mapforum@btinternet.com

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From: "David G Anderson" <anderson@GLEN-NET.CA>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:33:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c)
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Ed,

We are both doing the same thing today: sitting at the console and taking potshots at the world...

I certainly gave a wry smile of amusement in seeing your incisive surgical correction of the McCorkle misspelling after the editor was so severe in his several reviews.

On this reflective winter's day, Ed, I wish to propose the sharing of one of our mellow comforting vintage bottles. You open yours; I'll open mine. Sip slowly and we'll talk about when we next meet.

David A (from David Thompson's map room looking out on the Raisin River)
  
David G Anderson - Books
  19730 John Street
  Williamstown, ON
  Canada  K0C 2J0
  613 347-7192
www.abebooks.com/home/canadense

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From: "David G Anderson" <anderson@GLEN-NET.CA>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:38:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c)
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Please, Sir, if I might retract my missent private mail to Ed Dahl and avoid having it go to the MapHist maillist you would spare myself a red face and the need to apologize to the both Ed and the MapHisters...

D Anderson (who always chuckles when others do it...)

David G Anderson - Books
  19730 John Street
  Williamstown, ON
  Canada  K0C 2J0
  613 347-7192
www.abebooks.com/home/canadense

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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:07:31 -0000 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
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We can rely upon Ed for the dahly 'mot(s) juste(s)', n'est-ce pas?

Francis Herbert (not to be misspelled - as has happened - 'Hebert') f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ed Dahl [SMTP:edahl@iosphere.net]
> Sent:	03 February 2002 16:30
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	Re: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14 
> 
> To readers of "MapForum," issue 14:
> 
> The korrect spelling of a name misspelled more than 25 times in
> this new issue of "MapForum" is "McCorkle" (not "McCorckle").
> 
>     Barbara Backus McCorkle, comp. _New England in Early Printed
>         Maps, 1513 to 1800_.  Providence: The John Carter Brown
>         Library, 2001.  (ISBN 0-916617-53-X)
> 
> Nice book.
> 
> Nice issue of "MapForum."
> 
> 
> EdWord Dahl, 1292 Montée Paiement, Gatineau (Québec)
>      J8R 3K5  CANADA
> INTERNET:  edahl@iosphere.net
> TEL:  (819) 561-4029    FAX:  (819) 561-7753
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 9:06 AM
> Subject: [MapHist] MapForum Issue 14
> 
> 
> Non-member submission from ["MapForum.Com" <mapforum@btinternet.com>]
> 
> >We have just uploaded the latest issue of MapForum.Com, the internet
> >magazine about antique maps. Articles include:
> >
> >Collations: Four histories of the American War of Independence
> >Checklist: Part 3 of the Mapping of New England, covering 1670-1700
> >Ephemera: the Trade Card of John Marsh, book and map seller
> >Curiosity: The Blockenberg Witches (with no mention of Harry Potter!)
> >
> >The Reader Services section contains more Reader's Letters than usual,
> >and there are five Book Reviews.
> >
> >--
> >The Editor
> >MapForum.Com
> >
> >http://www.mapforum.com
> >
> >mapforum@btinternet.com
> 
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> where <email> is replaced by your email address.
> 
> 
> 
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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:33:43 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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Subject: [MapHist] List-owner's message: MapHist list instructions
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<x-flowed>
Dear all

Since last Friday the MapHist list runs with the Majordomo mailing list program. During the weekend I got several questions and error messages, making clear there were some problems and questions.

S*BSCRIBE and UNS*BSCRIBE (I replaced the u with * since the program automatically checks for these words and when it finds them, don't distribute it to te list).

The address for these commands is: majordomo@geog.uu.nl

When you recieve this message, that means you are subscribed and you don't need to do anything. I got several subscribe-request from people who were already subscribed.

DIGEST
The IT people at the Faculty of Geographical Sciences will work on this. If everything will work as we hope, the digest form will be available next week. I keep you informed.

POSTPONE
Sorry, not available in majordomo.

That's it for now.

Peter van der Krogt

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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 13:56:05 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
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Non-member submission from ["Barber, Peter" <Peter.Barber@bl.uk>]

Subject: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay' Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:13:46 -0000

As an English speaker I would like to support Markus's point, without in any way wanting to detract from Evelyn's achievement.  But the history of cartography is international, research does take place in all languages and this should be reflected  on an international website.  So please could we have contributions from outside the Anglo-Saxon world.  Could our French/German/Italian/Spanish etc. colleagues please send in their contributions?

Peter Barber

-----Original Message-----
From: Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH [mailto:Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH] Sent: 01 February 2002 10:13
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: AW: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'


Sorry, Mr van den Broecke, that is not the point.

I desire to explain that Edson's listing is appropriate for an English-speaking audience. This has nothing to to with education at Swiss high schools, but much with the unfortunate behaviour of many academics, not to mention the general public, to ignore publications in other languages.

Therefore I would like to gratulate Ms Edson for her paper, insofar it appeared in an academic journal designed for an American English-speaking audience. For a Web edition, however, I (and I am sure also many Web users that join the page by accident) would like to find a much broader approach, especially in the bibliography. Fact is that publications are best understood when read in, or translated into, your own language.

Important is IMHO what you *expect* from a site like Tony Campbell's: a true gateway into the world of the history of cartography, *not* into the world of the English-speaking colleagues only. Of course Ms Edson's paper has its place on the Gateway site, but many more such papers from a Dutch, German, French, Russian, Japanese, Arabic ... point of view should be mounted there.
As long as you have no choice, a paper like Edson's should be clearly marked as 'designed by, and intended for, English-speaking people'. Others will be disappointed of its anglocentric bibliography that almost completely ignores what is done elsewhere.


Yours sincerely,
Markus Oehrli

******************************************************************

Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography Seftigenstrasse 264
Postfach
CH-3084 Wabern

**********************************************

Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64) Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59) E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>

******************************************************************


 > ----------
 > From: 	Marcel van den Broecke
 > Reply To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl
 > Sent: 	Friday, February 1, 2002 10:26 AM  > To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl
 > Subject: 	Re: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  >
 > Come on, Markus Oehrli,
 > I happen to know that Swiss schools have an excellent English curriculum  > at
 > their High Schools!
 > Deborah van den Broecke - Günzburger  > Cartographica Neerlandica
 > tel. +31 30 2202 396
 > fax +31 30 2203 326
 > e-mail: cart.neer@tip.nl
 > URL: www.ortelius-antiquemaps.com
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: <Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH>
 > To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
 > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:35 AM  > Subject: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  >
 >
 > > Eine gute Bemerkung, Catherine!
 > >
 > > Edson's review and listing may be useful for English-speaking people,  > but
 > > other important publications are unfortunately not taken into  > consideration,
 > > fx: the 'Lexikon zur Geschichte der Kartographie' ed. by Kretschmer,  > > Dörflinger and Wawrik (Vienna, 1986); the new 'Atlantes Neerlandici' by  > van
 > > der Krogt ('t Goy-Houten, 1997-); the 'Atlantes Austriaci' ed. by  > Kretschmer
 > > and Dörflinger (Vienna, 1995); the multi-volume series on the history of  > > cartography ed. by Galera y Monegal (Barcelona, 1990-); the journal  > > 'Cartographica Helvetica' (Murten, 1990-); not to mention hundreds of  > other
 > > works in languages I do not read.
 > >
 > > It would probably be helpful for potential readers of such listings if a  > > remark like 'This bibliography is intended for an English-speaking  > audience'
 > > appears at the top.
 > >
 > >
 > > Yours sincerely,
 > > Markus Oehrli
 > >
 > > ******************************************************************  > >
 > > Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography  > > Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography  > > Seftigenstrasse 264
 > > Postfach
 > > CH-3084 Wabern
 > >
 > > **********************************************  > >
 > > Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64)  > > Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59)  > > E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>  > > Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>
 > >
 > > ******************************************************************  > >
 > >
 > > > ----------
 > > > From: David Cobb
 > > > Reply To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu  > > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 18:01 PM  > > > To: maphist@camail.harvard.edu
 > > > Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  > > >
 > > > From: <catherine.hofmann@bnf.fr>  > > > To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
 > > > Subject: Réf. : Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > Une vision américaine sur la recherche en histoire de la cartographie  > au
 > > > cours
 > > > des 15 dernières années...
 > > > A toutes fins utiles.
 > > >
 > > > Catherine Hofmann
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >   From: "tony campbell"
 > > >    To: "*MapHist"
 > > >    Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  > > >    Reply-To: "tony campbell"
 > > >
 > > >    I am happy to announce that permission was given for the mounting  > on
 > > > the
 > >    'Map
 > > >    History' website of Evelyn Edson's wide-ranging 9Bibliographic  > Essay:
 > >    History
 > > >    of Cartography9 (from "CHOICE: current reviews for academic  > > > libraries",
 > > >    July/August 2001)
 > > >    <
 > >
 > >
 > <http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html>http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html  > > >    >.  The 'Works Cited' (which is separately linked) includes over  > 100
 > >    titles.
 > >
 > > >    Have a look at the 'What's New' page < <  > > >    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html  > > >    >http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html > for recent developments.
 > > > You
 > >    can
 > > >    now, for the first time, search across the whole of the 'Map  > History'
 > > > site.
 > > >
 > > >    *****************************************  > > >    Tony Campbell
 > > >    76 Ockendon Road
 > > >    London N1 3NW
 > > >    UK
 > > >
 > > >
 > **************************************************************************  > > > *
 > > > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417
 > > > Harvard Map Collection FAX  617.496.0440  > > > Harvard College Library Email:
 > > > cobb@fas.harvard.edu
 > > > Cambridge, MA 02138
 > > > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
 > > > ************************** VERITAS  > > > ****************************************  > > >
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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:48:51 +0100
From: "Paul van den Brink" <paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>, <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
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Given the huge availibility of literary sources, I would hail these continental perspectives on recent developments in the history of  cartography. Not only as necessary contributions to a far more balanced Bibliographic Essay on the History of Cartography, but furthermore to refute the persistent idea (and Evelyn's essay leaves this lasting impression also) of the history of cartography as an Anglo-Saxon invention (which it is not)

In Madrid I recommended the organisers of the Boston-conference to include in their programm a session on continental histories of cartography, mainly focussing on historiographical approaches, definitions of time and space, and perspectives. Judging the reactions of David and Matthew, I concluded that they really welcomed the idea. The MapHist-discussion sofar confirmes the view (in my opinion) that we should start preparing.

Dr. Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands


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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:06:50 +0100
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Subject: RE: Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
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Non-member submission from ["Maura O'Connor" <MOCONNOR@nla.gov.au>]

Subject: RE: Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay' Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:15:40 +1100

Dear all
I would support Paul's comments.  My once in a career's opportunity to visit Madrid last year gave me some idea of the vast array of resources distributed amongst a number of collections, just in Spain alone.  It has since made me wonder how well are these resources known, and how many more lie undiscovered, particularly in private collections.    We also need more scholars willing and able not only to ferret out this material, but to study it and make critical and constructive comparisons with the later, published material.   It is also important that this research is published and made available.  It can always be translated into English later, if not concurrently!
Yours sincerely
Maura O'Connor
Map Curator
National Library of Australia
Canberra   ACT  2600
AUSTRALIA
Ph: 61 2 6262 1280
Fax: 61 2 6262 1653
Email : moconnor@nla.gov.au

 > ----------
 > From: 	Paul van den Brink[SMTP:paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl]  > Reply To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl
 > Sent: 	Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:48 am  > To: 	maphist@geog.uu.nl; maphist@maphist.nl  > Subject: 	Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'  >
 > Given the huge availibility of literary sources, I would hail these  > continental perspectives on recent developments in the history of  > cartography. Not only as necessary contributions to a far more balanced  > Bibliographic Essay on the History of Cartography, but furthermore to  > refute the persistent idea (and Evelyn's essay leaves this lasting  > impression also) of the history of cartography as an Anglo-Saxon invention  > (which it is not)
 >
 > In Madrid I recommended the organisers of the Boston-conference to include  > in their programm a session on continental histories of cartography,  > mainly focussing on historiographical approaches, definitions of time and  > space, and perspectives. Judging the reactions of David and Matthew, I  > concluded that they really welcomed the idea. The MapHist-discussion sofar  > confirmes the view (in my opinion) that we should start preparing.
 >
 > Dr. Paul van den Brink
 > Explokart Research Team
 > University of Utrecht
 > The Netherlands
 >
 >
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 > where <email> is replaced by your email address.
 > 

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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:34:37 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Derek Hayes  <derek@derekhayes.ca>
Subject: [MapHist] The Desliens World Map
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Does anybody know of any research on the date of the Nicolas Desliens world map in the Sächsische Landesbibliothek in Dresden. I recently acquired a photographic copy of the North American part of this map for use in an upcoming book.

My understanding was that it is dated 1541, and this is the date used by Sächsische Landesbibliothek. However, I happened to read an item on the 1542 Rotz atlas by David Quinn in his book "European Approaches to North America, 1450-1640" (Ashgate Variorum, Aldershot, UK, 1998) in which he footnotes the Desliens map as 

"now clear that the date was misread [on a reproduction] and that it was dated 1561." 

Yet in the same footnote he says the map was destroyed in Dresden in 1944, and this clearly cannot be the case, since I have just received a photographic copy, with the map nicely restored. (Unless they sent me a reproduction; I wish my German was better. Certainly it is nowhere stated to be a reproduction, and does not look like one.)

Can anyone throw some light on this for me?

Thanks

Derek Hayes

------------------------
Derek Hayes

Vancouver, BC Canada

derek@derekhayes.ca

http://www.derekhayes.ca

Phone 604 541 7850

Author: 
Historical Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest (1999) Historical Atlas of the Pacific Northwest (US edition, 1999) First Crossing: Alexander Mackenzie, His Expedition Across North America, and the Opening of a Continent (2001)
Historical Atlas of the North Pacific Ocean (2001)

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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:16:06 +0100
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Subject: RE: Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
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Non-member submission from [vladimir@unina.it]

>Subject: RE: Betr.: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:34:07 +0100 (CET)
>
>Dear All,
>I just had a few weeks ago an argument on these topics with Tony Campbell,
>epecially centered on the English speaking dominion on History of cartogrpahy
>on Imago Mundi, the so-called International magazine in History of 
>Cartography.
>I do think It is time to speak about this matter.
>
>I do deeply agree with Catherine, Markus, Peter (Barber) and other who 
>made his
>voice heard.
>
>Vladimiro

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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:10:26 +0100
Subject: [MapHist] Martin Benhaim globe
From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl,
        History of Astronomy Discussion Group <HASTRO-L@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>
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<x-html>
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Martin Benhaim globe</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<FONT FACE="Times New Roman">I have a question on the Martin Benhaim globe (1492) which may be answered by some of you.<BR> <BR>
The zodiacal path is indicated with the astrological signs.<BR> <BR>
In my view, the signs indicated are the astrological zodiac, beginning with aries at vernal point. (here the balance on the equator &nbsp;is linked with a greenwich meridian (approximatively) and the autumn equinox (balance), (could be interpreted as the beginning of the year?).<BR> <BR>
My questions are:<BR>
- do you know of other representations of zodiacs signs on terrestrial globes (more often ecliptic is drawn alone without signs)?<BR> - do you know some links, text or studies references on the history of the various origin meridians (Ptolemy &nbsp;alledged origin meridian by the Canarian islands, the portugal kings and popes one if I remember well was on the Açores or Canarians?, apart from the French Paris one I know) and specifically the choice of the Greenwich meridian (I have been on the web but found nothing valuable)?<BR> - why Martin Benhaim has chosen such a representation with the greenwich meridian, at that time?<BR> <BR>
<BR>
Jean-Pierre MARTIN<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] The Edson 'essay' and 'Map History'
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:45:15 -0000
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is good to see the lively response to my posting about the placing of Evelyn Edson's 'Bibliographical Essay'&nbsp;on the 'Map History' site.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I hope that the author's response, in which she pointed out what she was allowed to do, frees her from the perceived anglocentric blame.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This leaves the question of why I put the article up, unaltered, on the 'Map History' site.&nbsp; In the first place, how could I have done anything different?&nbsp; This is an online manifestation of a published article whose text, as is clearly stated at the beginning, is copyright (held by the American Library Association).&nbsp; I do hope to be allowed to include one or two additional links, and I will certainly need to do something about the now incorrect MapHist joining instructions.&nbsp; But, like most online versions of print articles, this remains unaltered.&nbsp; I also think it is unfair to expect the authors of articles of this type to rewrite them specially for a global web audience. I would have hoped (amid the understandable criticism) to see a little more appreciation of the fact that a useful article, inaccessible to most people, is now freely available to all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I should, perhaps, point out that this is the *first* article I have mounted on the 'Map History' site.&nbsp; I did so because the journal (CHOICE) does not mount its own content online.&nbsp; I have no intention at present of adding other articles.&nbsp; My role, as I see it, is to *point* to content held elsewhere (largely) on the web.&nbsp; I try to be multi-lingual.&nbsp; If there are, for example,&nbsp;insufficient non-English titles in my 'Web articles and commentaries on specific topics in the history of cartography' &lt; <A 
href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</A>&nbsp;&gt; that is because I have not found them, or have not been told about them.&nbsp; Please check the listing and send me details of the online articles I have missed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Several people have pointed out that the literature of the history of cartography is multi-lingual.&nbsp; I entirely agree.&nbsp; At the top of the Edson article are links back up the 'Map History' site's hierarchy.&nbsp; The first is to the 'Reading Suggestions' menu.&nbsp;&nbsp; This leads you first to 'Books to get you into the subject'.&nbsp; There you will find a number of the non-English language titles which Markus Oehrli (rightly) cited, and others besides.&nbsp; Equally, the 'Journals' page lists non-English titles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do not think that anyone has mentioned, in this discussion, the valuable work that Jürg Bühler does on the LIBER GdeC Education site &lt; <A 
href="http://www.maps.ethz.ch/gdc-education2.html">http://www.maps.ethz.ch/gdc-education2.html</A>&nbsp;&gt;.&nbsp; This includes bibliographies for Belgian, Chinese, Dutch, English, German and Hungarian literature.&nbsp;&nbsp; Each section has at least some history of cartography titles. A link to that&nbsp;site is given on the 'Books to get you into the subject' page.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It would certainly be possible for Evelyn, me, or anybody else, to submit supplementary information.&nbsp; This could comprise details of future publications or of existing non-English language titles.&nbsp; But, either way, that would have to be treated as a separate supplement, not as continuous changes to a dynamic article.&nbsp; Several people have put forward general suggestions of what might be done.&nbsp; I hope that one or more MapHist subscribers will now volunteer to gather in this new information, and on a continuing basis.&nbsp; Which site hosts such information is probably of less importance, given the ability to link to it.&nbsp; To make the task more manageable, it might perhaps be sensible for a different person to take on an individual language that is not covered on the GdeC site.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It would be marvellous if this theoretical discussion were to lead to concrete action of some kind.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The 'Map History' site is certainly *not* just concerned with English-language material.&nbsp; But I need far more help from the MapHist subscribers than I have (with some significant exceptions) received in the past, if I am to find out about material written other than in English.&nbsp;&nbsp; Please send information to me whenever you see it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 Ockendon Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
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Non-member submission from ["Catherine Delano-Smith" <c.delano-smith@qmul.ac.uk>]

Subject: Re: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:31:07 -0000
>
>I should like heartily to support Peter Barber's call to ALL colleagues in
>the map history world, not only those who publish in the English language,
>to `send in their contributions'.
>
>PLEASE do not be inappropriately modest about simply informing us of your
>recent publications, or those of colleagues who would not normally see
>MapHist or think of  the map history field. You will be doing a service to
>the subject, not boasting!
>
>More to the point, you will be helping Francis Herbert, compiler of IMAGO
>MUNDI'S annual   BIBLIOGRAPHY.  Send him a note directly, if you are shy
>about advertising it on MapHist.
>
>  Francis does a magnificent job every year in  his Bibliography--but his
>task is made unbelievably hard trying to discover not only what has been
>published but also, crucially, sufficient about the item to allow him to
>include the reference in the Bibliography: why don't you help by at least
>alerting him (in the first instance) to your and your colleagues' new
>publications, ESPECIALLY those appearing in journals or from subject areas
>most of us are unlikely to be monitoring on a daily basis.
>
>Francis has
>stringent bibliographical requirements (which are essential to allow him to
>compile not only a detailed and accurate record but the three key indexes
>  names, subjects and geographical areas)).  The details you send into
>MapHist will not be sufficient for that record BUT  they will let him know
>whom to contact for further information as and when he needs it.
>
>IMAGO MUNDI's bibliography, unparalleled in the field and already
>outstandingly international, is there for YOU:
>please help make it work even better for everybody, wherever they are and
>whatever their
>language; don't just leave it to someone else!
>
>Catherine Delano-Smith
>(Editor, Imago Mundi)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
>To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
>Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>
>
>Non-member submission from ["Barber, Peter" <Peter.Barber@bl.uk>]
>
>Subject: RE: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:13:46 -0000
>
>As an English speaker I would like to support Markus's point, without in any
>way wanting to detract from Evelyn's achievement.  But the history of
>cartography is international, research does take place in all languages and
>this should be reflected  on an international website.  So please could we
>have contributions from outside the Anglo-Saxon world.  Could our
>French/German/Italian/Spanish etc. colleagues please send in their
>contributions?
>
>Peter Barber
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH [mailto:Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH]
>Sent: 01 February 2002 10:13
>To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
>Subject: AW: [MapHist] Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>
>
>Sorry, Mr van den Broecke, that is not the point.
>
>I desire to explain that Edson's listing is appropriate for an
>English-speaking audience. This has nothing to to with education at Swiss
>high schools, but much with the unfortunate behaviour of many academics, not
>to mention the general public, to ignore publications in other languages.
>
>Therefore I would like to gratulate Ms Edson for her paper, insofar it
>appeared in an academic journal designed for an American English-speaking
>audience. For a Web edition, however, I (and I am sure also many Web users
>that join the page by accident) would like to find a much broader approach,
>especially in the bibliography. Fact is that publications are best
>understood when read in, or translated into, your own language.
>
>Important is IMHO what you *expect* from a site like Tony Campbell's: a true
>gateway into the world of the history of cartography, *not* into the world
>of the English-speaking colleagues only. Of course Ms Edson's paper has its
>place on the Gateway site, but many more such papers from a Dutch, German,
>French, Russian, Japanese, Arabic ... point of view should be mounted there.
>As long as you have no choice, a paper like Edson's should be clearly marked
>as 'designed by, and intended for, English-speaking people'. Others will be
>
>disappointed of its anglocentric bibliography that almost completely ignores
>what is done elsewhere.
>
>
>Yours sincerely,
>Markus Oehrli
>
>******************************************************************
>
>Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography
>Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography
>Seftigenstrasse 264
>Postfach
>CH-3084 Wabern
>
>**********************************************
>
>Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64)
>Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59)
>E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
>Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>
>
>******************************************************************
>
>
>  > ----------
>  > From: Marcel van den Broecke
>  > Reply To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>  > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2002 10:26 AM
>  > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>  > Subject: Re: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>  >
>  > Come on, Markus Oehrli,
>  > I happen to know that Swiss schools have an excellent English curriculum
>  > at
>  > their High Schools!
>  > Deborah van den Broecke - Günzburger
>  > Cartographica Neerlandica
>  > tel. +31 30 2202 396
>  > fax +31 30 2203 326
>  > e-mail: cart.neer@tip.nl
>  > URL: www.ortelius-antiquemaps.com
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: <Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH>
>  > To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
>  > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:35 AM
>  > Subject: [MapHist] AW: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>  >
>  >
>  > > Eine gute Bemerkung, Catherine!
>  > >
>  > > Edson's review and listing may be useful for English-speaking people,
>  > but
>  > > other important publications are unfortunately not taken into
>  > consideration,
>  > > fx: the 'Lexikon zur Geschichte der Kartographie' ed. by Kretschmer,
>  > > Dörflinger and Wawrik (Vienna, 1986); the new 'Atlantes Neerlandici' by
>  > van
>  > > der Krogt ('t Goy-Houten, 1997-); the 'Atlantes Austriaci' ed. by
>  > Kretschmer
>  > > and Dörflinger (Vienna, 1995); the multi-volume series on the history
>of
>  > > cartography ed. by Galera y Monegal (Barcelona, 1990-); the journal
>  > > 'Cartographica Helvetica' (Murten, 1990-); not to mention hundreds of
>  > other
>  > > works in languages I do not read.
>  > >
>  > > It would probably be helpful for potential readers of such listings if
>a
>  > > remark like 'This bibliography is intended for an English-speaking
>  > audience'
>  > > appears at the top.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Yours sincerely,
>  > > Markus Oehrli
>  > >
>  > > ******************************************************************
>  > >
>  > > Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography
>  > > Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography
>  > > Seftigenstrasse 264
>  > > Postfach
>  > > CH-3084 Wabern
>  > >
>  > > **********************************************
>  > >
>  > > Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64  (CH: 031 963 24 64)
>  > > Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59  (CH: 031 963 24 59)
>  > > E-Mail: <markus.oehrli@lt.admin.ch>
>  > > Web: <http://www.swisstopo.ch>
>  > >
>  > > ******************************************************************
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > ----------
>  > > > From: David Cobb
>  > > > Reply To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
>  > > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 18:01 PM
>  > > > To: maphist@camail.harvard.edu
>  > > > Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>  > > >
>  > > > From: <catherine.hofmann@bnf.fr>
>  > > > To: maphist@calists.harvard.edu
>  > > > Subject: Réf. : Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Une vision américaine sur la recherche en histoire de la cartographie
>  > au
>  > > > cours
>  > > > des 15 dernières années...
>  > > > A toutes fins utiles.
>  > > >
>  > > > Catherine Hofmann
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >   From: "tony campbell"
>  > > >    To: "*MapHist"
>  > > >    Subject: Evelyn Edson 'Bibliographic Essay'
>  > > >    Reply-To: "tony campbell"
>  > > >
>  > > >    I am happy to announce that permission was given for the mounting
>  > on
>  > > > the
>  > >    'Map
>  > > >    History' website of Evelyn Edson's wide-ranging 9Bibliographic
>  > Essay:
>  > >    History
>  > > >    of Cartography9 (from "CHOICE: current reviews for academic
>  > > > libraries",
>  > > >    July/August 2001)
>  > > >    <
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
><http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html>http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/edson.html
>  > > >    >.  The 'Works Cited' (which is separately linked) includes over
>  > 100
>  > >    titles.
>  > >
>  > > >    Have a look at the 'What's New' page < <
>  > > >    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html
>  > > >    >http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/whatsnew.html > for recent
>developments.
>  > > > You
>  > >    can
>  > > >    now, for the first time, search across the whole of the 'Map
>  > History'
>  > > > site.
>  > > >
>  > > >    *****************************************
>  > > >    Tony Campbell
>  > > >    76 Ockendon Road
>  > > >    London N1 3NW
>  > > >    UK
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  >
>**************************************************************************
>  > > > *
>  > > > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417
>  > > > Harvard Map Collection FAX  617.496.0440
>  > > > Harvard College Library Email:
>  > > > cobb@fas.harvard.edu
>  > > > Cambridge, MA 02138
>  > > > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
>  > > > ************************** VERITAS
>  > > > ****************************************
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  >
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Peter van der Krogt
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:13:33 +0100
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Subject: [MapHist] Text and Image--Call for Papers; further information
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Non-member submission from ["Catherine Delano-Smith" <c.delano-smith@qmul.ac.uk>]

Subject: Text and Image--Call for Papers; further information
>Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:38:51 -0000
>
>The organisers of the Reading conference apologised for the oversight in not
>indicating the length of contributions to their July conference:
>viz.  30 minutes.
>
>Catherine Delano-Smith


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:36:46 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl,
        History of Astronomy Discussion Group <HASTRO-L@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
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Jean-Pierre

First, the name of the globe maker is Behaim (without the 'n'). This correct spelling will help you to search the internet.

Secondly, in 1992 there was an exhibition in Nürnberg on the 500th anniversary of this globe. For that occasion a large two volume book was published, one volume with essays and one with the catalogue of the exhibition:

Focus Behaim Globus / Konzeption und Katalogbearbeitung: Johannes K.W.
Willers … [et al.]. – Nürnberg: Verlag des Germanisches Nationalmuseums, 1992.
-Teil 1: Aufsätze, pp. 1-496; Teil 2: Katalog, pp. 497-977. – Catalogue of the exhibition in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, 2 December 1992-28 February 1993. -No ISBN.

Did you consult this work already?

For your question on prime meridians:

Do you say that Behaim has the Greenwich meridian as prime meridian? That would be very peculiar, since that meridian was chosen as prime meridian only in 1884 at the International Meridian Conference in Washington.
 From a 1999 MapHist message I quote:

A detailed discussion of the proceedings of the 1884 International Meridian Conference is given in Derek Howse, "1884 and Longitude Zero," Vistas in Astronomy, 28 (1985), 11-19. (Howse's paper itself was part of the proceedings of
the "Longitude Zero" symposium held at the National Maritime Museum in 1984 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the 1884 conference.)

Maybe this helps

Peter van der Krogt

At 11:10 5-2-2002, Jean-Pierre MARTIN wrote:
>I have a question on the Martin Benhaim globe (1492) which may be answered 
>by some of you.
>
>The zodiacal path is indicated with the astrological signs.
>
>In my view, the signs indicated are the astrological zodiac, beginning 
>with aries at vernal point. (here the balance on the equator  is linked 
>with a greenwich meridian (approximatively) and the autumn equinox 
>(balance), (could be interpreted as the beginning of the year?).
>
>My questions are:
>- do you know of other representations of zodiacs signs on terrestrial 
>globes (more often ecliptic is drawn alone without signs)?
>- do you know some links, text or studies references on the history of the 
>various origin meridians (Ptolemy  alledged origin meridian by the 
>Canarian islands, the portugal kings and popes one if I remember well was 
>on the Açores or Canarians?, apart from the French Paris one I know) and 
>specifically the choice of the Greenwich meridian (I have been on the web 
>but found nothing valuable)?
>- why Martin Benhaim has chosen such a representation with the greenwich 
>meridian, at that time?
>
>
>Jean-Pierre MARTIN
>


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Cc: <bousquet@univ-paris1.fr>
Subject: [MapHist] Colloque international, 6-7 June 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:42:15 -0000
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The following may be of interest:-</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Colloque international. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Un géographe, pionnier de l'histoire de la cartographie et de l'éducation :&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>FRANÇOIS DE DAINVILLE (1909-1971). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>6-7 June 2002.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>Carré des Sciences, ancienne école polytechnique, 1 rue Descartes, 75005 PARIS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Le colloque est soutenu par le CNRS, l'école des Chartes, l'EPHE et la société d'histoire<BR>religieuse. L'INSCRIPTION AU COLLOQUE EST GRATUITE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For background information and the full programme, see </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&lt; <A 
href="http://margotte.univ-paris1.fr/prodig/enseignement/cartographieancoll.htm">http://margotte.univ-paris1.fr/prodig/enseignement/cartographieancoll.htm</A>&nbsp;&gt;.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Or contact the organiser: Catherine BOUSQUET-BRESSOLIER&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt; <A href="mailto:bousquet@univ-paris1.fr">bousquet@univ-paris1.fr</A>&nbsp;&gt;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>[Posted by <A href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A>]</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:43:36 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
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Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl> wrote in response to a post by Jean-Pierre MARTIN <>:

>Do you say that Behaim has the Greenwich meridian as prime meridian? That
>would be very peculiar, since that meridian was chosen as prime meridian
>only in 1884 at the International Meridian Conference in Washington.

Jean-Pierre, to further elucidate, you should not be surprised to find any prime meridian whatever on old maps. There is no natural choice for a prime meridian, of course. Map makers chose prime meridians for any number of reasons. Sometimes the choice was patriotic or otherwise tendentious; somtimes it was convenient; sometimes it was local convention; sometimes it was because the absolute meridional separation from a major, known location was not known, so instead a prominent feature within the map was chosen as the zero point. In the case of the Behaim globe, if the prime meridian seems to be at Greenwich (which I have not verified) then I'd suggest the target were actually London.

Regards,
daan Strebe

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From: "veronica uribe" <verouribe33@HOTMAIL.COM>
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:02:34 -0500
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<x-flowed>

Hello to all,

I really enjoy this mailing list and wanted to thank everyone who contributes to it.
I was wondering if anyone would have any hints about Postgraduate degrees in the History of cartography, do they exist? Any good places?

I have an Honours degree in Visual Arts and I am a full time history of cartography fanatic and researcher and would like to do some serious study.
Anything?
Thankyou,
Veronica Uribe


_________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:49:11 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "John W. Docktor" <jdocktor@CYBERIA.COM>
Subject: Re: [MapHist]Postgraduate degrees in the History of cartography
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<x-flowed>

>I really enjoy this mailing list and wanted to thank everyone who 
>contributes to it.
>I was wondering if anyone would have any hints about Postgraduate degrees 
>in the History of cartography, do they exist? Any good places?

Look at http://www.cwu.edu/~rhickey/v_cart/index.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor
Phone: 717-846-8997         Fax: 717-846-3163 jdocktor@cyberia.com

Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:13:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lester <mapsguy@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
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Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :

Modern Marvels
Map Making
"Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and the global positioning system have sparked a revolution." 

They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any MapHisters watch it?

Regards,
Jay L.

=====
Jay Lester
Chapel Hill, NC
mapsguy@yahoo.com

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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:14:01 +1200
From: Michael Ross <michael.ross@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [MapHist] Digital Image Authentication
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I have recently raised the issue of authentication of digital map images with the NZ Map Society at our AGM.

I presented a paper that utilsed digital techniques to alter scans of maps.
This was done to illustrate changes in map states. In effect i made a 3rd state map appear to be identical to a 1st state map.

Given that in the future we will be purchasing digital images of maps for libraries, research, and collections, how are we going to authenticate the images that are created and distributed.

Have any list members dealth with this issue?

Regards
Michael Ross
Michael Ross
Mobile: +64 21 897 889
Fax: +64 21 218 2166

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From: Ethan.Gomberg@cityoforlando.net
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
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I'm afraid that I missed it too.

I would be very interested if anyone knew when it would be on again.

Thanks

____________________________________________________ Ethan M. Gomberg
City GIS, City of Orlando -Engineering Bureau 400 S. Orange Ave.
Orlando, FL 32802 USA
TEL 407.246.3064
FAX 407.246.2892
ethan.gomberg@cityoforlando.net
Check out our website at http://www.cityoforlando.net/public_works/esd/gis



                                                                                                                                 
                    Jay Lester                                                                                                   
                    <mapsguy@YAHOO       To:     MapHist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>                                                    
                    .COM>                cc:                                                                                     
                    Sent by:             Subject:     [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel                                
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                    02/05/2002                                                                                                   
                    11:13 PM                                                                                                     
                    Please respond                                                                                               
                    to maphist                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 




Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :

Modern Marvels
Map Making
"Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and the global positioning system have sparked a revolution."

They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any MapHisters watch it?

Regards,
Jay L.

=====
Jay Lester
Chapel Hill, NC
mapsguy@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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From: "Mike Zaun" <info@MAPSANDPRINTS.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:54:53 -0700
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The video is for sale on the History Channel web site:

http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/vp01.jhtml?id=42356

Looks like we missed it for this month, maybe next month.


Modern Marvels
Map Making
Tuesday , February 05 1:00 PM-2:00 PM

Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and the global positioning system have sparked a revolution. TV G Modern Marvels
Map Making
Tuesday , February 05 7:00 PM-8:00 PM

Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and the global positioning system have sparked a revolution. TV G


Michael


Michael Zaun
Director of Internet Operations
Art Source International Inc.
1237 Pearl Street
Boulder, Colorado 80302
Phone 303.444.4079
FAX   303.444.4298
http://www.mapsandprints.com

Email:  INFO@MAPSANDPRINTS.COM

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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of Ethan.Gomberg@cityoforlando.net Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:52 AM To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel



I'm afraid that I missed it too.

I would be very interested if anyone knew when it would be on again.

Thanks

____________________________________________________ Ethan M. Gomberg
City GIS, City of Orlando -Engineering Bureau 400 S. Orange Ave.
Orlando, FL 32802 USA
TEL 407.246.3064
FAX 407.246.2892
ethan.gomberg@cityoforlando.net
Check out our website at http://www.cityoforlando.net/public_works/esd/gis




                    Jay Lester
                    <mapsguy@YAHOO       To:     MapHist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
                    .COM>                cc:
                    Sent by:             Subject:     [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
                    owner-maphist@
                    geog.uu.nl


                    02/05/2002
                    11:13 PM
                    Please respond
                    to maphist






Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :

Modern Marvels
Map Making
"Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and the global positioning system have sparked a revolution."

They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any MapHisters watch it?

Regards,
Jay L.

=====
Jay Lester
Chapel Hill, NC
mapsguy@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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From: "Judith Tyner" <jztyner@earthlink.net>
To: "MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>, "Jay Lester" <mapsguy@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 8:10:33 -0800
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I agree.  I could have had my History of Cartography class watch if I had known.
Judith Tyner

> [Original Message]
> From: Jay Lester <mapsguy@YAHOO.COM>
> To: MapHist <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
 > Date: 02/05/2002 8:13:57 PM
> Subject: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
>
> Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was
> going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from
> The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :
> 
> Modern Marvels
> Map Making
> "Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall
> Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's
> computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for
> law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and
> the global positioning system have sparked a revolution." 
> 
> They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out
> there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any
> MapHisters watch it?
> 
> Regards,
> Jay L.
> 
> =====
> Jay Lester
> Chapel Hill, NC
> mapsguy@yahoo.com
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
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--- Judith Tyner
--- jztyner@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.


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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:38:53 -0500
From: Overlee Farm Books <overlee@BCN.NET>
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To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
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Judith Tyner wrote:

> I agree.  I could have had my History of Cartography class watch if I had
> known.
> Judith Tyner
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Jay Lester <mapsguy@YAHOO.COM>
> > To: MapHist <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
>  > Date: 02/05/2002 8:13:57 PM
> > Subject: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
> >
> > Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was
> > going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from
> > The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :
> >
> > Modern Marvels
> > Map Making
> > "Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall
> > Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's
> > computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for
> > law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and
> > the global positioning system have sparked a revolution."
> >
> > They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out
> > there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any
> > MapHisters watch it?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jay L.
> >
> > =====
> > Jay Lester
> > Chapel Hill, NC
> > mapsguy@yahoo.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> > http://greetings.yahoo.com
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>
> --- Judith Tyner
> --- jztyner@earthlink.net
> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
>
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:02:00 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Deborah Natsios <dn@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Digital Image Authentication
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couple of samples of recent research in digital imagery authentication: 

"Existing digital imagery authentication techniques are based on cryptographic principles and digital signatures..."  Methods for Detecting Tampering in Digital Images

http://www.cartome.org/digitamper.htm

and steganography (information hiding) "Commercial applications of steganography in the form of digital watermarks and digital fingerprinting are currently being used to track the copyright and ownership of electronic media..." Steganalysis of Images Created Using Current Steganography Software

http://www.cartome.org/steganalysis.htm





At 09:14 PM 2/6/02 +1200, you wrote:
>I have recently raised the issue of authentication of digital map images with
>the NZ Map Society at our AGM.
>
>I presented a paper that utilsed digital techniques to alter scans of maps.
>This was done to illustrate changes in map states. In effect i made a 3rd state
>map appear to be identical to a 1st state map.
>
>Given that in the future we will be purchasing digital images of maps for libraries,
>research, and collections, how are we going to authenticate the images that
>are created and distributed.
>
>Have any list members dealth with this issue?
>
>Regards
>Michael Ross
>Michael Ross
>Mobile: +64 21 897 889
>Fax: +64 21 218 2166
>
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>

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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:25:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A.C. Hiatt" <ach26@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
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Subject: [MapHist] Cambridge History of Cartography seminar
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The following talks have been scheduled for the first half of 2002. Please note this programme contains some additions and alterations from previous versions.

For further details, please contact Alfred Hiatt, Trinity College, Cambridge, England (ach26@cam.ac.uk)

Cambridge History of Cartography Seminar Programme 2002

February 19
Emma Widdis (Trinity College, Cambridge) Appropriating the *Rodina*: Film and The Creation of Soviet Imaginary Geography, 1917-1935

March 5
Irit Rogoff (Goldsmiths College, London) Not There Of - Counter Cartographies of Ambivalence

May 7
Nicholas Dew (King's College, Cambridge) The cartographic projects of the early Paris Académie des sciences (1666-c.1700)

May 21
Jennifer Wallace (Peterhouse, Cambridge) Mapping Troy

June 4
Daniel Birkholz (Pomona College, USA)
Harley Lyrics and Hereford Maps

June 11
Scott D. Westrem (Graduate Center and Lehman College, City University of New York)
Medieval Mapcraft

All meetings will be held in the Old Combination Room, Trinity College, Cambridge. Papers will begin at 5.30.

All welcome.



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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:15:10 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Map Making on the History Channel
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<x-flowed>
This message was sent to the list-owner's address instead of to the list:

>Reply-To: <b.meijer@andropov.com>
>From: "Andropov" <b.meijer@andropov.com>
>To: <owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl>
>Subject: Map Making on the History Channel
>Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:42:03 +0100
>
>Dear Mr. Gomberg & Mr. Lester,
>
>With regard to your posting. I noticed that the video "Map Making" can be
>ordered. If there are no reruns, maybe this is an alternative. Regretfully
>they only ship to the US and Canada.
>
>http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/vp01.jhtml?id=42356
>
>Best Regards,
>Boudewijn Meijer
>
>  -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van:    owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]  Namens
>Ethan.Gomberg@cityoforlando.net
>Verzonden:      woensdag 6 februari 2002 13:52
>Aan:    maphist@geog.UU.NL
>Onderwerp:      Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
>
>
>I'm afraid that I missed it too.
>
>I would be very interested if anyone knew when it would be on again.
>
>Thanks
>
>____________________________________________________
>Ethan M. Gomberg
>City GIS, City of Orlando -Engineering Bureau
>400 S. Orange Ave.
>Orlando, FL 32802 USA
>TEL 407.246.3064
>FAX 407.246.2892
>ethan.gomberg@cityoforlando.net
>Check out our website at http://www.cityoforlando.net/public_works/esd/gis
>
>
>
>
>                     Jay Lester
>                     <mapsguy@YAHOO       To:     MapHist
><maphist@geog.uu.nl>
>                     .COM>                cc:
>                     Sent by:             Subject:     [MapHist] Map Making
>on the History Channel
>                     owner-maphist@
>                     geog.uu.nl
>
>
>                     02/05/2002
>                     11:13 PM
>                     Please respond
>                     to maphist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was
>going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from
>The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :
>
>Modern Marvels
>Map Making
>"Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall
>Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's
>computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for
>law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and
>the global positioning system have sparked a revolution."
>
>They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out
>there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any
>MapHisters watch it?
>
>Regards,
>Jay L.
>
>=====
>Jay Lester
>Chapel Hill, NC
>mapsguy@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
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Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:16:34 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
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<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["Dr. Dennis Fitzsimons" <Fitzsimons@swt.edu>]

>Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:27:03 -0600
>From: "Dr. Dennis Fitzsimons" <Fitzsimons@swt.edu>
>Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map Making on the History Channel
>
>The History Channel program "Modern Marvels -- Map Making"  was
>produced in 1996 for A&E Television Networks.  It can be purchase on video
>tape (VHS) from the History Channel website.  $24.95
>
>http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/s03.jhtml?search=Modern marvels
>
>Dennis
>
>
>
> > Rats! I wish someone had alerted me via MapHist that this show was
> > going to be on tonight (at least in the U.S.). Here's a synopsis from
> > The History Channel's web site www.historychannel.com :
> >
> > Modern Marvels
> > Map Making
> > "Join us as we chart the history of cartography--from ancient Marshall
> > Islands' stick maps to the New York City Police Department's
> > computerized super-map. Some are works of art, others vital tools for
> > law enforcement, space exploration, and agriculture. Now satellites and
> > the global positioning system have sparked a revolution."
> >
> > They don't have it listed as showing again this month. Anybody out
> > there have any way of getting them to re-air Map Making? Did any
> > MapHisters watch it?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jay L.
> >
> > =====
> > Jay Lester
> > Chapel Hill, NC
> > mapsguy@yahoo.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> > http://greetings.yahoo.comDr. Dennis Fitzsimons
>Department of Geography
>Southwest Texas State University
>San Marcos, TX  78666-4616
>512.245.3200


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:22:20 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Erhard  
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<x-flowed>
  Non-member submission from [Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>]

>From: Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>
>To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maphist@maphist.nl
>Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:11:35 -0000
>
>I have a copy of: Bennet, James Henry.  Winter and spring on the shores =
>of
>the Mediterranean [etc.]. - 3rd ed. - London : J & A Churchill, 1875,  =
>for
>which the maps are all "Grav=E9 par Erhard ... Paris, Imp. Monrocq".
>
>Can anyone give me a reference for Erhard's full name and dates?=20
>
>Thanks=20
>
>Jane=20
>
>Jane Wickenden,=20
>Historic Collections Librarian=20
>Institute of Naval Medicine=20
>Alverstoke=20
>Hampshire  PO12 2DL=20
>
>023 927-68238=20
>(Medal Room, Monckton House)=20


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:09:29 -0500
From: Overlee Farm Books <overlee@BCN.NET>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Erhard
Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
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List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl

Probably is Georges Erhard Schieble.  See Tooley's Dictionary of Mapmakers.

List-owner MapHist wrote:

>   Non-member submission from [Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>]
>
> >From: Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>
> >To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maphist@maphist.nl
> >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:11:35 -0000
> >
> >I have a copy of: Bennet, James Henry.  Winter and spring on the shores =
> >of
> >the Mediterranean [etc.]. - 3rd ed. - London : J & A Churchill, 1875,  =
> >for
> >which the maps are all "Grav=E9 par Erhard ... Paris, Imp. Monrocq".
> >
> >Can anyone give me a reference for Erhard's full name and dates?=20
> >
> >Thanks=20
> >
> >Jane=20
> >
> >Jane Wickenden,=20
> >Historic Collections Librarian=20
> >Institute of Naval Medicine=20
> >Alverstoke=20
> >Hampshire  PO12 2DL=20
> >
> >023 927-68238=20
> >(Medal Room, Monckton House)=20
>
> Peter van der Krogt
> List-owner MapHist
>
> List-info: http://www.maphist.nl
>
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From: "Catherine Delano-Smith" <c.delano-smith@qmul.ac.uk>
To: "maphist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] `Internationality' and IMAGO MUNDI
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:57:31 -0000
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 Dear MapHisters,

Please do not let us confuse two different issues: that of language of publication and that of academic discourse. My concern is with the latter.

A recent message to MapHist referred to Imago Mundi as ` the SO-CALLED International magazine' [my emphasis].

Internationality is taken very seriously at Imago Mundi and is greatly valued. I should like to draw your attention to:

1. the Editorial in Volume 50 (1998), especially p. 9, where the international range of authors of articles is given and the academic issue of `internationality' is discussed;

 2. the fact that, since I wrote there, volumes 50-54 inclusive have involved (on a speedy count) 13 authors from the UK, 15 from North America, and 26 from other parts of the world; please compare this with the break-down for the previous five volumes, in which under a third--not almost half-- the articles came from parts of the world other than the UK or North America;

 3. Piero Falchetta's listing of ALL articles published in Imago Mundi, from Volume 1 (1935), which was described in Vol 53 (2001) on page 143 as available from: -
<http://geoweb.venezia.sbn.it/geoweb/HSL/ImagoMundi/ImagoMundi.html> from which you may judge for yourselves the international reach of topics discussed over the years;

4. to the headnote to the Bibliography in each volume of Imago Mundi, which identifies all the languages included among that particular year's entries;

5. and to the range of books reviewed each year.

 On the last point-- and parallel to my comment on bibliographical matters the other day--may I remind you that BOOKS NOT RECEIVED BY THE BOOK REVIEW EDITOR cannot be reviewed. It is as simple as that.

 Everybody who works for Imago Mundi does so entirely voluntarily. It is up to YOU, too, to play your part as contributors in one way or another. Please ensure the Book Reviews Editor (Ron Grim) knows about-- or, better still, receives a copy of  your new book --whatever the language and please copy the information to the Compiler of the Bibliography (Francis Herbert), ADDING any information you have about your and your colleagues' articles, again whatever the language.

As any editor will tell you -all journals depend, in the FIRST PLACE, on their contributors.

We at Imago Mundi look forward to some truly international co-operation to achieve what we all want: the best possible scholarly, English-language, journal dealing with worldwide topics, from across disciplinary boundaries and from a world-wide range of authors and contributors to ALL sections of the journal.

Catherine Delano Smith

 Dr Catherine DELANO-SMITH
 Editor
 IMAGO MUNDI. The International Journal for the History of Cartography  Tel/Fax: +44 (0)20 8346 5112
 E-mail: c.delano-smith@qmw.ac.uk

 See the Imago Mundi web site: http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/imago.html




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Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:02:19 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, discovery@listserver.tue.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001
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<x-flowed>
Dear all

As most of you already know, I publish every year an edited and indexed version of the MapHist (and Discovery-list) discussions on CD-ROM.

With a slight delay because of the take-over of the MapHist list-ownership, the 2002 edition is almost finished. This CD rom includes the MapHist and Discovery-list discussions up to and including 2001.

The discussions are more or less edited, or better, cleaned up: Spams, and wrongly posted personal messages are not included, unnecessary internet headers (only date, name of sender and subject are kept), signature files and copies of original messages are removed.

The files are coverted to PDF-format and indexed. Acrobat Reader+Search version 4.05 in four languages and installation instructions are included on the CD-Rom.

The price is now fixed on € 25 or $ 22.
(P.S. if your e-mail don't recognize the symbol € [Alt-0128], it is the brand-new euro-symbol).

For payment details and further information see http://www.maphist.nl (choose MapHist CD-Rom)

See also the 1996 discussion about copyright at the end of the MapHist CD-Rom page, click there on "Here"

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:30:43 +0100
From: Wolfgang Lierz <lierz@library.ethz.ch>
Organization: ETH Library
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To: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001

Dear Peter,

...
> With a slight delay because of the take-over of the MapHist list-ownership,
> the 2002 edition is almost finished. 
...
> headers (only date, name of sender and subject are kept), signature files ...

can you try to replace David Cobb as sender from the last months of moderated list by the original sender ? I found this very uncomfortable.

Thanks and best regards
-- 
Wolfgang Lierz         lierz@library.ethz.ch IT Services            IT-Dienste   
ETH - Bibliothek       Tel.   +41-1-632-2180 Raemistrasse 101       Fax:   +41-1-632-1414 CH-8092  Zuerich       Mobil: +41-79-2050765
From: "Ed Dahl" <edahl@iosphere.net>
To: "Peter van der AA-Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Fw: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:06:17 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200

Peter -- "...click there on 'Here' ".  Where? : )

Congratulations for getting the next "edition"  "published".

Mary and I are off to Toronto at noon till Sunday for a Champlain Society council meeting.

                                         Regards, Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>; <discovery@listserver.tue.nl> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 4:02 AM Subject: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001


Dear all

As most of you already know, I publish every year an edited and indexed version of the MapHist (and Discovery-list) discussions on CD-ROM.

With a slight delay because of the take-over of the MapHist list-ownership, the 2002 edition is almost finished. This CD rom includes the MapHist and Discovery-list discussions up to and including 2001.

The discussions are more or less edited, or better, cleaned up: Spams, and wrongly posted personal messages are not included, unnecessary internet headers (only date, name of sender and subject are kept), signature files and copies of original messages are removed.

The files are coverted to PDF-format and indexed. Acrobat Reader+Search version 4.05 in four languages and installation instructions are included on the CD-Rom.

The price is now fixed on € 25 or $ 22.
(P.S. if your e-mail don't recognize the symbol € [Alt-0128], it is the brand-new euro-symbol).

For payment details and further information see http://www.maphist.nl (choose MapHist CD-Rom)

See also the 1996 discussion about copyright at the end of the MapHist CD-Rom page, click there on "Here"

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:27:47 +0100
Subject: Re : [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr>
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<x-html>
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re : [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe</TITLE> </HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<FONT FACE="Times New Roman">I apologize for the wrong orthograph of Behaim, my finger slipped...<BR> </FONT><BR>
<FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Peter van der Krogt wrote:<BR> </FONT><BR>
<TT>Focus Behaim Globus / Konzeption und Katalogbearbeitung: Johannes K.W.<BR> Willers … [et al.]. – Nürnberg: Verlag des Germanisches Nationalmuseums, 1992.<BR> -Teil 1: Aufsätze, pp. 1-496; Teil 2: Katalog, pp. 497-977. – Catalogue of the<BR> exhibition in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, 2 December 1992-28<BR> February 1993. -No ISBN.<BR>
Did you consult this work already?<BR>
<FONT SIZE="7"><BR>
</FONT></TT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">No, sorry, and I read german with too much difficulty, besides I am not sure where to find it in France.<BR> <BR>
Daan Strebe,<BR>
<BR>
I can make my point with these numerous hypothesis.<BR> <BR>
However, what I try to do is to list the &quot;prime meridians&quot; whatever the reason. Stating that choice was political reason, it is evident, but I am for different reasons, convinced that often new reasons are covering old statements: for example it could be the case of the canarian-iles fortunees Ptolemy first reference taken as new reference by the Portugal kings.<BR> <BR>
Anyway I am not map and historian scholar to explain why in Nuremberg Martin has chosen this representation.<BR> <BR>
Besides, I dont see what you mean by &quot;london was the target&quot;, could you clarify?<BR> <BR>
<BR>
Jean-Pierre MARTIN<BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
----------<BR>
&gt;De : Strebe@aol.com<BR>
&gt;À : maphist@geog.UU.NL<BR>
&gt;Objet : Re: [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe<BR> &gt;Date : Mar 5 fév 2002 18:43<BR>
&gt;<BR>
<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Peter van der Krogt &lt;peter@maphist.nl&gt; wrote in response to a post by<BR> &gt; Jean-Pierre MARTIN &lt;&gt;:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;&gt;Do you say that Behaim has the Greenwich meridian as prime meridian? That<BR> &gt;&gt;would be very peculiar, since that meridian was chosen as prime meridian<BR> &gt;&gt;only in 1884 at the International Meridian Conference in Washington.<BR> &gt;<BR>
&gt; Jean-Pierre, to further elucidate, you should not be surprised to find any<BR> &gt; prime meridian whatever on old maps. There is no natural choice for a prime<BR> &gt; meridian, of course. Map makers chose prime meridians for any number of<BR> &gt; reasons. Sometimes the choice was patriotic or otherwise tendentious;<BR> &gt; somtimes it was convenient; sometimes it was local convention; sometimes it<BR> &gt; was because the absolute meridional separation from a major, known location<BR> &gt; was not known, so instead a prominent feature within the map was chosen as<BR> &gt; the zero point. In the case of the Behaim globe, if the prime meridian seems<BR> &gt; to be at Greenwich (which I have not verified) then I'd suggest the target<BR> &gt; were actually London.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Regards,<BR>
&gt; daan Strebe<BR>
&gt;<BR>
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:20:14 EST
Subject: [MapHist] Re: Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
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Jean-Pierre MARTIN <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>Besides, I dont see what you mean by "london was the target",
>could you clarify?

Simply, at the time of the construction of the Behaim globe, I would not expect Greenwich to have had great significance. London, on the other hand, did. Since London lies on about the same meridian as Greenwich, I think it is safe to believe that Behaim intended London to mark the prime meridian.

Regards,
daan Strebe
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:58:10 +0000
From: Doug Weller <dweller@ramtops.demon.co.uk>
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To: Peter van der Krogt <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001
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Hi,

Friday, February 8, 2002, 9:02:19 AM, Peter wrote:

> For payment details and further information see
> http://www.maphist.nl (choose MapHist CD-Rom)

This site is under construction and will be available soon

-- 
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated  Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org  Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk  Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 10:10:36 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: Re : [MapHist] Martin Benhaim (= Behaim) globe
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<x-flowed>
Dear Jaen-Pierre

At 12:27 8-2-2002, you wrote:
>No, sorry, and I read german with too much difficulty, besides I am not 
>sure where to find it in France.

Not reading German will be a real handicap when you want to study Martin Behaim's globe, since most of the literature on this globe is in German.
There is a copy in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France: (Check Catalogue BN-Opale plus at http://www.bnf.fr/) (check this also searching for Behaim in the title, you will find several other interesting titles)

Peter

Notice from the BNF:

Type : texte imprimé, monographie

Titre conventionnel : [Exposition. Nuremberg. Germanisches Nationalmuseum. 
1992-1993]
Titre(s) : Focus Behaim Globus [Texte imprimé] : [Ausstellung], Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, 2. Dezember 1992 bis 28. Februar 1993 / [Ausstellungsleitung Johannes Karl Wilhelm Willers] Publication : Nürnberg : Verlag des Germanischen Nationalmuseums, 1992 Description matérielle : 2 vol. (977 p.) : ill. ; 28 cm Collection : Ausstellungskataloge des Germanischen Nationalmuseums Comprend : Teil 1, Aufsätze ; Teil 2, Katalog Autre(s) auteur(s) : Willers, Johannes Karl Wilhelm . Ed.
Sujet(s) : Behaim , Martin (1459-1507 ) -- Expositions Découvertes géographiques -- 15e siècle -- Expositions Globes terrestres -- Histoire -- Expositions

1 Tolbiac - Rez-de-jardin - magasin
4- G- 6891 (1) support imprimé 2 Tolbiac - Rez-de-jardin - magasin 4- G- 6891 (2) support imprimé

Titre(s) : Focus Behaim Globus. Teil 2. [Texte imprimé] : Katalog. 
Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, 2. Dezember 1992 bis 28. Februar 1993 Publication : Nürnberg : Verlag des Germanischen Nationalmuseums, 1992 Description matérielle : pp.502-977
Autre(s) auteur(s) : Willers, Johannes Karl Wilhelm. Ed.

1 Richelieu - Manuscrits occidentaux - magasin C-1800 (1-2) support imprimé




YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 10:10:48 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001
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<x-flowed>
The MapHist website is on-line since 1997. I think you had some troubes with connecting or there were some server problems.

Peter

At 19:58 8-2-2002, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Friday, February 8, 2002, 9:02:19 AM, Peter wrote:
>
> > For payment details and further information see
> > http://www.maphist.nl (choose MapHist CD-Rom)
>
>This site is under construction and will be available soon
>
>--
>  Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 10:19:31 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: [MapHist] New constellations
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<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["Anna Friedman" <afriedman@orbit.adler.uchicago.edu>]

Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:27:34 -0600
>Subject: New constellations
>To: HASTRO-L@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU, maphist@geog.uu.nl
>From: "Anna Friedman" <afriedman@orbit.adler.uchicago.edu>
>
>Dear all,
>Just wanted to let you know about a fun website created in conjunction
>with my last exhibit.
>It features "new" constellations created by visitors to the Adler as part
>of an educational activity. Some of them are really quite clever. [You can
>click on each thumbnail image to get a larger version.]
>The link is:
>http://www.adlerplanetarium.org/history/exhibits/constellations/new.html
>Personally, I like November's submissions the best, as well as those
>created by one of our educators.
>
>FYI--the exhibit primarily focused on two constellations, Ursa Major and
>the now obsolete Argo Navis, so the create-a-constellation activity used
>stars from these.
>
>And, of course, if you're so inclined (or your kids are), you can download
>the activity from the website, and send in a submission (via snail or
>e-mail).
>
>Regards,
>Anna
>***************************
>Anna Felicity Friedman
>Assistant Curator, History of Astronomy
>Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum
>1300 South Lake Shore Drive
>Chicago, IL 60605
>1 312 322-0527 phone
>1 312 341-9935 fax
>anna_friedman@adlernet.org


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 10:00:59 +0000
From: Doug Weller <dweller@ramtops.demon.co.uk>
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To: Peter van der Krogt <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re[2]: [MapHist] MapHist CD-Rom 1994-2001
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Hi,

Saturday, February 9, 2002, 9:10:48 AM, you wrote:

> The MapHist website is on-line since 1997. I think you had some troubes 
> with connecting or there were some server problems.

> Peter

> At 19:58 8-2-2002, you wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>Friday, February 8, 2002, 9:02:19 AM, Peter wrote:
>>
>> > For payment details and further information see
>> > http://www.maphist.nl (choose MapHist CD-Rom)
>>
>>This site is under construction and will be available soon
>>
>>--
This works:

http://www.maphist.nl/index.html

But if I try the shorter version, it doesn't!

Odd.

Anyway, I just happen to have 25 Euros in my pocket, which I will be sending to you either today or after I get back from Barcelona!

Doug

-- 
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated  Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org  Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk  Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 13:38:29 +0000
From: Robert Walker <rw@fineart.tm>
Organization: FineArt http://www.fineart.tm
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To: "maphist@geog.uu.nl" <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] London Print, map ,and book fair tomorrow
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Dear Colleagues,

Just a reminder that our fair (now renamed ANTIQUARIAN ART - Book, Print & Paper fair) is still taking place at the Bonnington Hotel, 92 Southampton Row, London tomorrow (Sunday).

We will be exhibiting prints, maps, illustrated books, drawings, paintings and ephemera.

Among other things I will show:
(Normal trade discounts will apply)
Cartography:
TEESDALE (H.) A NEW GENERAL ATLAS OF THE WORLD. London. H Teesdale & Co, 1854 Principle mountains & 46 double page maps, hand coloured in outline.  £1,610/$2,335

FADEN (W.M) ATLAS MINIMUS UNIVERSALIS, OR A GEOGRAPHICAL ABRIDGEMENT ANCIENT & MODERN OF THE SEVERAL PARTS OF THE EARTH. W.M.Faden, 1798 With 55 hand coloured maps. £1910/$2,770

CELLARIUS, GEOGRAPHIA ANTIQUA: BEING A COMPLETE SET OF MAPS OF ANTIENT GEOGRAPHY. London. Rivingtons, 1819 With 33 double page copper engraved maps. Quarto (26.5 x 19.5cms). £350/$508

MOLL (H), GEOGRAPHIA CLASSICA: The Geography of the Antients as contained in the Greek and Latin Classics, exhibited in 32 maps. (31 out of 32 maps present) £410/$595

MOLL (H) ATLAS MANUALE OR A NEW SETT OF MAPS OF ALL THE PARTS OF THE EARTH, AS WELL ASIA, AFRICA & AMERICA, AS EUROPE London, 1709 With 43 maps. Octavo (20 x 12.5cms). £2630/$3,814

JAMIESON (A) A CELESTIAL ATLAS, Comprising A Systematic Display Of The Heavens In A Series Of 30 Maps. Illustrated By Scientific Descriptions Of Their Contents And Accompanied By Catalogues Of The Stars And Astronomical Exercises. G. and W. B. Whitaker 1822. 30 plates. £1610/$2,335

NIGHTINGALE (J) ENGLISH TOPOGRAPHY: Or, A Series Of Historical And Statistical Descriptions Of The Several Counties Of England And Wales Accompanied By A Map Of Each County. Baldwin, Craddock and Joy 1816. 2 general and 56 county maps each with pale purple library stamp to corner of image £560/$812

Topography:
ROBERTS (D.) THE HOLY LAND  London. Cassell Petter & Galpin, C1879-1884 With 120 lithographic plates. Quarto (31.5 x 23.5cms). Original blue pictorial cloth, a.e.g. Plates clean (apart from one) Loose in case. £1320/$1914

Mountaineering
AULDJO JOHN. NARRATIVE OF AN ASCENT TO THE SUMMIT OF MONT BLANC ON THE 8TH & 9TH AUGUST, 1827.  1828 1st edition. Large Paper copy.
Lithograph plates, maps &c. Orig boards, rebacked with orig. Label. £1510/$2190

Peter Milicivec from Hay on Wye will be joining us and he usually brings some very interesting material.

Hope to see you there!

With best regards.

Yours sincerely,

Robert Walker

--

Search our inventory of 1,600 FINE PLATE BOOKS, ATLASES, 1st EDITIONS and BINDINGS by title or keyword at: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/IList?vci=328395 Browse our inventory at:http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BooksBrowse?page=CLIENT&vendorclientid=328395 MAPSANDPRINTSGB - An internet community for antiquarian and collectable map and print professionals.
2,500,000 art auction records on CD-ROM for £233 or $340 + postage.
Addr: 39 Windmill Platt, Handcross, W. Sussex RH17 6BT UK Telefax: ++44 (0)1444 401100 Currency converter: http://www.xe.net/currency/ (A guide only).
Cheques payable to FineArt. Errors and omissions excepted.


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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 17:40:18 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
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<x-flowed>
Dear all

This afternoon a commercial message was distributed by MapHist with a list of nine atlases and geography books, with their prices. (see also N.B. below).
Several years ago there was a discussion what kind of commercial postings were allowed on MapHist. There was a general agreement - more or less - on the following guidelines:

Acceptable are;
·       Announcements of new reference material for sale.
·       Announcements of new dealer catalogues in print or on a WWW site. 
Name, brief description of catalogue content (no list of important items) and e-mail address for requesting catalogues only.
·       Announcement of library de-accessions.
·       Announcements of exhibitions or gatherings of mapsellers or collectors.
Not acceptable are:
·       To use the list as a sale or wants list.
·       Asking for price information.

On the website I added the words between brackets in the 2nd acceptable point and one new point in the not acceptable list:

·       Listing the important items in a new catalogue.

This I added because I noticed that several times new catalogues, auctions etc. were announced with a list of the most important items. This comes very close to using the list as a sale or wants list.

I would like to open a discussion about such lists of items. There are at least three options:

- they are acceptable, (with or without prices?) - they are acceptable with a limited number of items (with or without prices?) (what is the limit? 3, 5, 10, 25, 100 ???).
- they are not acceptable at all.

What is the idea of the list-subscribers?

N.B. Of course this is nothing personal against Robert Walker or any dealer (on the contrary, I have very good contacts with dealers and I am working myself one day a week for a dealer/publisher, so I am 20% commercial and 80% university scholar and for the rest I "do" MapHist). Robert was just the first one to send a message with such a list since I started list-ownership and triggered therefore this discussion.

Peter


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Editor, HES & De Graaf Publishers
Consultant for the history of cartography, Antiquariaat Forum <http://www.forum-hes.nl/>
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
private homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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From: MKBabinski@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 12:02:48 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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<x-html>
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/9/2002 11:55:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, peter@maphist.nl writes:<BR> <BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">they are acceptable with a limited number of items (with or without <BR> prices?) (what is the limit? 3, 5, 10, 25, 100 ???).</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR>
Limit 10 items, price OK. But the "quality" of items offered should be restricted to the more serious ones (unfortunately that is very subjective). Richard Arkway's&nbsp; bi-monthly or so web lists/notifications of new materials are a good example of acceptable postings. <BR> Mark Babinski</FONT></HTML>

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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 08:03:51 -0900
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: deelong@ALASKA.COM (Dee Longenbaugh)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] London Print, map ,and book fair tomorrow
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List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl

Robert Walker,
        There's nothing wrong with announcing a dates, time, and place of fairs, but I thought we agreed long ago that MapHist is an inappropriate venue for advertising.
        Dee Longenbaugh

Dee Longenbaugh
deelong@alaska.com


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From: "Don Holeman" <dholeman1@home.com>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 12:37:36 -0500
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No on commercial items lists.

It is difficult enough to filter through the information on this list without having to wade through additional irrelevant information. This is a Map History list and not a Maps for Sale list. It would be easy enough to start a commercial list, I recommend those with a commercial interest do so.

Don Holeman


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items


> Dear all
>
> This afternoon a commercial message was distributed by MapHist with a list
> of nine atlases and geography books, with their prices. (see also N.B.
below).
> Several years ago there was a discussion what kind of commercial postings
> were allowed on MapHist. There was a general agreement - more or less - on
> the following guidelines:
>
> Acceptable are;
> ·       Announcements of new reference material for sale.
> ·       Announcements of new dealer catalogues in print or on a WWW site.
> Name, brief description of catalogue content (no list of important items)
> and e-mail address for requesting catalogues only.
> ·       Announcement of library de-accessions.
> ·       Announcements of exhibitions or gatherings of mapsellers or
> collectors.
> Not acceptable are:
> ·       To use the list as a sale or wants list.
> ·       Asking for price information.
>
> On the website I added the words between brackets in the 2nd acceptable
> point and one new point in the not acceptable list:
>
> ·       Listing the important items in a new catalogue.
>
> This I added because I noticed that several times new catalogues, auctions
> etc. were announced with a list of the most important items. This comes
> very close to using the list as a sale or wants list.
>
> I would like to open a discussion about such lists of items. There are at
> least three options:
>
> - they are acceptable, (with or without prices?)
> - they are acceptable with a limited number of items (with or without
> prices?) (what is the limit? 3, 5, 10, 25, 100 ???).
> - they are not acceptable at all.
>
> What is the idea of the list-subscribers?
>
> N.B. Of course this is nothing personal against Robert Walker or any dealer
> (on the contrary, I have very good contacts with dealers and I am working
> myself one day a week for a dealer/publisher, so I am 20% commercial and
> 80% university scholar and for the rest I "do" MapHist). Robert was just
> the first one to send a message with such a list since I started
> list-ownership and triggered therefore this discussion.
>
> Peter
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Editor, HES & De Graaf Publishers
> Consultant for the history of cartography, Antiquariaat Forum
> <http://www.forum-hes.nl/>
> e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> private homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 13:08:25 -0500
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
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<x-html>
<html>
The minute you try to define &quot;serious&quot;, there will be problems.
Does serious mean pricey, scarce, good or uncommon reference source, historically interesting (and, if so, to whom?). Also, how often could one post: monthly, bimonthly, quarterly, etc. Who defines abuse and what happens if that occurs? Since maptrade is already there, and classifieds appear on MapForum, as much as some might like extra advertising space, I would not markedly alter previous policy. The number of list subscribers is relatively small, particularly when something like <u>Mercator's World</u> boasts a print circulation of 20,000. Catalogue announcements with associated links have not been a serious problem, and dealers have not tended to abuse this.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joel Kovarsky<br> <br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>I would like to open a discussion about such lists of items. There are at least three options:<br> <br>
- they are acceptable, (with or without prices?)<br> - they are acceptable with a limited number of items (with or without prices?) (what is the limit? 3, 5, 10, 25, 100 ???).<br> - they are not acceptable at all.<br>
<br>
What is the idea of the list-subscribers?<br> </blockquote></html>

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 19:24:55 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
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<x-flowed>
Don,

There is already a commercial list for maps: Maptrade, see http://www.raremaps.com/maptrade/
As far as I remember, this list was a result of one of the former discussions on MapHist about commercial posting (Barry, am I right?)

Peter

At 18:37 9-2-2002, you wrote:
>No on commercial items lists.
>
>It is difficult enough to filter through the information on this list
>without having to wade through additional irrelevant information. This is a
>Map History list and not a Maps for Sale list. It would be easy enough to
>start a commercial list, I recommend those with a commercial interest do so.
>
>Don Holeman


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 13:01:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lester <mapsguy@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: [MapHist] Map for Sale!
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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MapHisters,

FOR SALE OR TRADE: Manuscript map of a hypothetical interstate road system running through a crudely drawn floor plan of a new home, circa 1969. Best offer or will trade for a Collett map of Carolina.

Might I assume I now have your attention?

My preference is to avoid the listing of specific items for sale, "serious" or otherwise on MapHist when MapTrade is so readily available for that purpose (maybe I'll crosspost the above message ;-). As Joel stated, dealers have not abused the policy of brief catalogue announcements with appropriate links and I would prefer we keep it that way. No list of items (with or without prices), please.

Regards to all the wonderful MapHist folks, Jay L.



=====
Jay Lester
Chapel Hill, NC
mapsguy@yahoo.com

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:53:34 +1300
From: Michael Ross <michael.ross@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [MapHist] Ville et Baye de Gayette
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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I have a coloured map (19cm x 12.5cm approx) with the above title. It is labelled Plate 27, and I suspect it is from John Hamilton Moore's "The New Practical Navigator". The chart shows a number of towns/settlements and a reasonably extensive survey of the harbour.

Can anyone on the list provide any assistance in confirming the identity of this chart?

Thank you

Michael

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------
Michael Ross
Voice: +64.21.897.889
Fax:    +64.21.218.2166
michael.ross@clear.net.nz

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From: "Cartographics" <Carto@TESCO.NET>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] Faden map of Herefordshire canals
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:18:14 -0000
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I have an undated and untitled map of proposed canals in Herefordshire which is causing me a problem.  It was engraved by William Faden, Charing Cross.
I suspect that it was prepared to accompany the printed version of a report by Robert Whitworth dated 20 December 1777, but would welcome some confirmation.
If anyone has access to a print of this report containing the original map I would be grateful if they could get in touch with me.

From:  Richard Dean, 49 Grange Road, Biddulph, Stoke on Trent ST8 7RY, UK.
E-mail Maps@cartographics.co.uk  Phone 01782-513449

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From: "John Kmosena" <kmosena@execpc.com>
To: <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Vote for Map Lists
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:13:11 -0600
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I would like to open a discussion about such lists of items. There are at <BR>least three options:<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT face=Arial size=2>My vote is:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>- they are acceptable, (with or without prices)</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am a novice collector and find the list announcements helpful.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John 
Kmosena</FONT></FONT><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Cc: "Gary Turley" <gturley@asterpub.com>, <miles.bw@BTINTERNET.COM>
Subject: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:04:34 -0000
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<DIV>I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World - since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months now but neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my difficulty.&nbsp; If it is only me, then it is of no great importance.&nbsp; If, however, the restructuring of their site means that other people can no longer access the articles and information they have put online, this would clearly be a loss - for them and the wider community.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 'Web articles' page &lt; <A 
href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</A>&nbsp;&gt; to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links&nbsp;(as now seems necessary) I need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to their new URL &lt; www.mercatorsworld.com&gt;.&nbsp; It loads, and says 'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I have told Gary that I hope&nbsp;this does not mean that the Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I know he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However,&nbsp;I always check all links on my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never had a problem of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I would have to think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access to it.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the Mercator's World site yourself <A 
href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</A>&gt;, and let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were changed.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<A href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</A>&gt; also recently altered the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be relatively simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us who provide multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any people who have bookmarked individual articles, or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of which they may well be unaware].&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; [I know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done at MapForum!].</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 Ockendon Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A 
href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:19:17 +0000
From: Herbert Prinz <hprinz@attglobal.net>
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ville et Baye de Gayette
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I checked the 10th ed., London,1794 and the first American ed. (from the 13th English), Blunt, Newburyport, 1800. In both editions there are nearly identical (to each other) copper plates similar to your describtion.

However:

The whole plate is titled "Surveying".
There are actually two charts, or rather drafts of charts on the plate.
The top chart draft is titled "City and Bay of Gayette". All labels of features are also in English.
The draft contains a surveying baseline, auxiliary contruction lines and lettering of crucial points.
The plate is not coloured.
In neither edition is the plate labelled or referred to as "plate 27". They are marked "Face Page 271" (ed. 1794), and "Face Page 259" (ed. 1800).

The purpose of the plate is to elucidate some points made in the chapter on coastal surveying.

Regards

Herbert Prinz

Michael Ross wrote:

> I have a coloured map (19cm x 12.5cm approx) with the above title. It is
> labelled Plate 27, and I suspect it is from John Hamilton Moore's "The New
> Practical Navigator". The chart shows a number of towns/settlements and a
> reasonably extensive survey of the harbour.
>
> Can anyone on the list provide any assistance in confirming the identity of
> this chart?

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From: "David G Anderson" <anderson@GLEN-NET.CA>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:02:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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Tony Campbell notes that Netscape id not happy with Mercator's World.

We use a Norwegian browser called Opera  <http://www.opera.com> . It is the "third" browser in the world and is customized for unusual operating systems and conditions. Since it is designed to the tight international standards of the W3 Consortium it behaves much like the "canary in the mineshaft" in detecting proprietary shortcuts that unfairly impede the performance of other browsers.

So we when into <http://www.mercatorsworld.com/> with Opera. The results were positive. We experienced no glitches or other performance issues.

That's my report.

David G Anderson
  
David & Delande Anderson
Bethune-Thompson House (1784)
Williamstown, ON  K0C 2J0 Canada
   613 347-7192
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:37:51 +1300
From: Michael Ross <michael.ross@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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<DIV><SPAN class=430393620-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Tony</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=430393620-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Using IE 5.5 with Active X disabled, I appear to have no problems at any level of the site.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=430393620-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=430393620-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Michael</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Michael Ross</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Voice: +64.21.897.889</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax:</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=Arial size=2> +64.21.218.2166</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>michael.ross@clear.net.nz</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Legal Notice:</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>The information in this electronic mail message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to, or use of, this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is not authorised.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Please delete all copies of this message if you are not the intended addressee.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl 
  [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]<B>On Behalf Of </B>tony 
  campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 11, 2002 8:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  *MapHist<BR><B>Cc:</B> Gary Turley; miles.bw@BTINTERNET.COM<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  [MapHist] Mercator's World online<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World - 
  since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I 
  have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months now but 
  neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my difficulty.&nbsp; If 
  it is only me, then it is of no great importance.&nbsp; If, however, the 
  restructuring of their site means that other people can no longer access the 
  articles and information they have put online, this would clearly be a loss - 
  for them and the wider community.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 
  'Web articles' page &lt; <A 
  href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</A>&nbsp;&gt; 
  to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now 
  dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links&nbsp;(as now seems necessary) I 
  need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies 
  disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to 
  their new URL &lt; www.mercatorsworld.com&gt;.&nbsp; It loads, and says 
  'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties 
  before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, 
  though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;I have told Gary that I hope&nbsp;this does not mean that the 
  Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully 
  understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I know 
  he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However,&nbsp;I always check all links on 
  my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never had a problem 
  of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I would have to 
  think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access 
  to it.&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the 
  Mercator's World site yourself <A 
  href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</A>&gt;, and 
  let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, 
  what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume 
  that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were 
  changed.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<A 
  href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</A>&gt; also recently altered 
  the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be relatively 
  simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us who provide 
  multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount 
  of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any people who have bookmarked 
  individual articles, or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of 
  which they may well be unaware].&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; [I 
  know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done at 
  MapForum!].</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 Ockendon 
  Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><A 
  href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 
  6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History 
  of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A 
  href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:49:21 +1300
From: Michael Ross <michael.ross@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Ville et Baye de Gayette
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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Herbert
Thank you for your information.

My plate is entirely in French, with Gayette (including le Château and S.
Trinite) identified, and other population locations around the bay identified as Fort, Castillone, Villagede Mola, and Escaure.

The bay contains the title, and there is a scale in the bottom right-hand corner "Eschelle dun liers delieiie".

Can you recommend a suitable reference work that could assist me? Or would a scanned image help?

Regards
Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On
> Behalf Of Herbert Prinz
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:19 AM
> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ville et Baye de Gayette
>
>
> I checked the 10th ed., London,1794 and the first American ed.
> (from the 13th
> English), Blunt, Newburyport, 1800. In both editions there are
> nearly identical
> (to each other) copper plates similar to your describtion.
>
> However:
>
> The whole plate is titled "Surveying".
> There are actually two charts, or rather drafts of charts on the plate.
> The top chart draft is titled "City and Bay of Gayette". All
> labels of features
> are also in English.
> The draft contains a surveying baseline, auxiliary contruction lines and
> lettering of crucial points.
> The plate is not coloured.
> In neither edition is the plate labelled or referred to as "plate
> 27". They are
> marked "Face Page 271" (ed. 1794), and "Face Page 259" (ed. 1800).
>
> The purpose of the plate is to elucidate some points made in the
> chapter on
> coastal surveying.
>
> Regards
>
> Herbert Prinz
>
> Michael Ross wrote:
>
> > I have a coloured map (19cm x 12.5cm approx) with the above title. It is
> > labelled Plate 27, and I suspect it is from John Hamilton
> Moore's "The New
> > Practical Navigator". The chart shows a number of
> towns/settlements and a
> > reasonably extensive survey of the harbour.
> >
> > Can anyone on the list provide any assistance in confirming the
> identity of
> > this chart?
>
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:50:38 -0500
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Judy Kertész <kertesz@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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<x-html>
<html>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
After receiving Tony Campbell's email, I tested Netscape browser versions 4.1, 4.2, and 4.7.&nbsp; It looks as if his is not an isolated experience.&nbsp; In fact, all three versions are unable to access the URL:
<a href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com/" eudora="autourl">www.mercatorsworld.com</a>.&nbsp; However, I had no difficulty accessing the website with multiple versions of Microsoft Explorer as well as Netscape 6.2.&nbsp; <br> <br>
I hope that this helpful.<br>
<br>
****************<br>
<br>
Judy <font face="Arial, Helvetica">Kertész<br> </font>PhD Candidate<br>
History of American Civilization<br>
Harvard University<br>
<br>
At 07:04 PM 2/10/02 +0000, you wrote: <br> <blockquote type=cite cite>I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World - since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months now but neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my difficulty.&nbsp; If it is only me, then it is of no great importance.&nbsp; If, however, the restructuring of their site means that other people can no longer access the articles and information they have put online, this would clearly be a loss - for them and the wider community.<br>
 <br>
I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 'Web articles' page &lt;
<a href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</a> &gt; to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links (as now seems necessary) I need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.<br>  <br>
My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to their new URL &lt; <a href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com>. /" eudora="autourl">www.mercatorsworld.com&gt;. </a> It loads, and says 'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.<br>  <br>
 I have told Gary that I hope this does not mean that the Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I know he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However, I always check all links on my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never had a problem of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I would have to think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access to it.&nbsp; <br>  <br>
But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the Mercator's World site yourself <a href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com/" eudora="autourl">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</a>&gt;, and let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were changed.<br>  <br>
Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<a href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</a>&gt; also recently altered the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be relatively simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us who provide multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any people who have bookmarked individual articles, or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of which they may well be unaware].&nbsp; <br>  <br>
Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; [I know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done at MapForum!].<br>  <br>
*****************************************<br> Tony Campbell<br>
76 Ockendon Road<br>
London N1 3NW<br>
UK<br>
 <br>
<a href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</a><br>  <br>
Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 6477<br> ******************************************<br> 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<br> <a href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</a><br>  <br>
 <br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
</html>

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From: "David M. Lawrence" <dave@fuzzo.com>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Cc: <gturley@asterpub.com>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:26:57 -0500
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002>I tested the Mercator's World site with three browsers.&nbsp; Here's what I found:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002>Internet Explorer 6: works OK</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002>Netscape 6.2: works OK</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002>Netscape 4.08:&nbsp;does not load</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dave Lawrence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT 
size=2>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp;David M. 
Lawrence&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Home:&nbsp; (804) 559-9786<BR>&nbsp;9272-G Hanover Crossing Drive&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (804) 559-9787<BR>&nbsp;Mechanicsville, VA&nbsp; 23116&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Email: dave@fuzzo.com<BR>&nbsp;USA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | http:&nbsp; <A href="http://fuzzo.com/" target=_blank>http://fuzzo.com</A><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>"We have met the enemy and he is us."&nbsp; -- Pogo<BR><BR>"No trespassing<BR>&nbsp;4/17 of a haiku"&nbsp; --&nbsp; Richard Brautigan<BR>&nbsp;</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
  face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
  owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl] <B>On Behalf Of 
  </B>tony campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:05 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> *MapHist<BR><B>Cc:</B> Gary Turley; 
  miles.bw@BTINTERNET.COM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [MapHist] Mercator's World 
  online<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World - 
  since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I 
  have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months now but 
  neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my difficulty.&nbsp; If 
  it is only me, then it is of no great importance.&nbsp; If, however, the 
  restructuring of their site means that other people can no longer access the 
  articles and information they have put online, this would clearly be a loss - 
  for them and the wider community.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 
  'Web articles' page &lt; <A 
  href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</A>&nbsp;&gt; 
  to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now 
  dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links&nbsp;(as now seems necessary) I 
  need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies 
  disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to 
  their new URL &lt; www.mercatorsworld.com&gt;.&nbsp; It loads, and says 
  'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties 
  before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, 
  though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;I have told Gary that I hope&nbsp;this does not mean that the 
  Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully 
  understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I know 
  he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However,&nbsp;I always check all links on 
  my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never had a problem 
  of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I would have to 
  think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access 
  to it.&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the 
  Mercator's World site yourself <A 
  href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</A>&gt;, and 
  let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, 
  what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume 
  that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were 
  changed.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<A 
  href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</A>&gt; also recently altered 
  the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be relatively 
  simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us who provide 
  multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount 
  of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any people who have bookmarked 
  individual articles, or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of 
  which they may well be unaware].&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; [I 
  know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done at 
  MapForum!].</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 Ockendon 
  Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><A 
  href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 
  6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History 
  of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A 
  href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:47:20 -0500
From: "E. Bradford" <bed@nc.rr.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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The HTML being emitted by www.mercatorsworld.com is missing two </TABLE> HTML entries. That causes
Netscape to display a blank page. You can still see the page with Netscape if you use file/"edit page". However you won't be able to interact with the page. I sent gturley@asterpub.com some email informing him that is site generating mal-formed HTML.

I would also like to know what software he is using to generate his pages. IE and opera seem to overcome this "limitation" whereas netscape 4.7 and netscape gold do not. Netscape 6.2 works OK also.

Hope this helps and solves the problems.

Ed Bradford

tony campbell wrote:

> I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World
> - since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.   I
> have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months
> now but neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my
> difficulty.  If it is only me, then it is of no great importance.  If,
> however, the restructuring of their site means that other people can
> no longer access the articles and information they have put online,
> this would clearly be a loss - for them and the wider community. I
> have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my
> 'Web articles' page < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html > to the
> many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now
> dead.  However, before I alter the links (as now seems necessary) I
> need to be sure that they are still generally accessible. My preferred
> browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies disabled.  From
> my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to their new URL <
> www.mercatorsworld.com>.  It loads, and says 'Document done', but
> there is nothing there.  I had no difficulties before the URL
> changes.  I can get through to the site using Explorer, though the old
> links to individual articles are now dead there as well.  I have told
> Gary that I hope this does not mean that the Mercator's World site is
> now barred to Netscape users.  I fully understand that he is not aware
> of this having definitely happened, and I know he would be unhappy if
> it had.  However, I always check all links on my site (via Netscape)
> before including a link, and I have never had a problem of this kind
> before.   As a matter of principle, I would have to think very
> carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access to
> it. But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.  Please check the
> Mercator's World site yourself <www.mercatorsworld.com>, and let me
> know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.  If you do, what
> browser are you using?  If I hear nothing, I will have to assume that
> something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were
> changed. Most of you will probably know that MapForum
> <www.mapforum.com> also recently altered the URLs of its existing
> webpages.  These changes may be relatively simple for the webmaster.
> However, they involve those of us who provide multiple links (such as
> Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount of boring work.
> It also means that any people who have bookmarked individual articles,
> or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of which they may
> well be unaware]. Webmasters, please think carefully before you change
> your URLs!  [I know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect
> of what was done at
> MapForum!]. *****************************************
> Tony Campbell
> 76 Ockendon Road
> London N1 3NW
> UK t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk Tel: 020 7359 6477  International:
> +44 20 7359 6477
> ******************************************
> 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'
> http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps

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From: D8eight@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:02:23 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=5 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">Stop sending me mail please this is not Neil good?</FONT></HTML>

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From: "David M. Lawrence" <dave@fuzzo.com>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:22:29 -0500
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<DIV><SPAN class=820402122-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I went back to pre-Paleolithic technology and found that Internet Explorer 3.1 (on Windows 3.1) worked fine as well.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=820402122-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=820402122-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT 
size=2>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp;David M. 
Lawrence&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Home:&nbsp; (804) 559-9786<BR>&nbsp;9272-G Hanover Crossing Drive&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (804) 559-9787<BR>&nbsp;Mechanicsville, VA&nbsp; 23116&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Email: dave@fuzzo.com<BR>&nbsp;USA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | http:&nbsp; <A href="http://fuzzo.com/" target=_blank>http://fuzzo.com</A><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>"We have met the enemy and he is us."&nbsp; -- Pogo<BR><BR>"No trespassing<BR>&nbsp;4/17 of a haiku"&nbsp; --&nbsp; Richard Brautigan<BR>&nbsp;</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
  face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
  owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl] <B>On Behalf Of 
  </B>David M. Lawrence<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:27 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> maphist@geog.UU.NL<BR><B>Cc:</B> 
  gturley@asterpub.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World 
  online<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=576214920-10022002>I 
  tested the Mercator's World site with three browsers.&nbsp; Here's what I 
  found:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=576214920-10022002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=576214920-10022002>Internet Explorer 6: works OK</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=576214920-10022002>Netscape 6.2: works OK</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=576214920-10022002>Netscape 4.08:&nbsp;does not load</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=576214920-10022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dave 
  Lawrence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <P><FONT 
  size=2>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp;David 
  M. 
  Lawrence&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | Home:&nbsp; (804) 559-9786<BR>&nbsp;9272-G Hanover Crossing 
  Drive&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (804) 
  559-9787<BR>&nbsp;Mechanicsville, VA&nbsp; 
  23116&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Email: 
  dave@fuzzo.com<BR>&nbsp;USA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | http:&nbsp; <A href="http://fuzzo.com/" 
  target=_blank>http://fuzzo.com</A><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>"We 
  have met the enemy and he is us."&nbsp; -- Pogo<BR><BR>"No 
  trespassing<BR>&nbsp;4/17 of a haiku"&nbsp; --&nbsp; Richard 
  Brautigan<BR>&nbsp;</FONT> </P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
    face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
    owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl] <B>On Behalf Of 
    </B>tony campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:05 
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> *MapHist<BR><B>Cc:</B> Gary Turley; 
    miles.bw@BTINTERNET.COM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [MapHist] Mercator's World 
    online<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World 
    - since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only 
    me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for 
    some months now but neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain 
    my difficulty.&nbsp; If it is only me, then it is of no great 
    importance.&nbsp; If, however, the restructuring of their site means that 
    other people can no longer access the articles and information they have put 
    online, this would clearly be a loss - for them and the wider 
    community.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 
    'Web articles' page &lt; <A 
    href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</A>&nbsp;&gt; 
    to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now 
    dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links&nbsp;(as now seems necessary) 
    I need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies 
    disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to 
    their new URL &lt; www.mercatorsworld.com&gt;.&nbsp; It loads, and says 
    'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties 
    before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, 
    though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;I have told Gary that I hope&nbsp;this does not mean that the 
    Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully 
    understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I 
    know he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However,&nbsp;I always check all 
    links on my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never 
    had a problem of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I 
    would have to think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape 
    users had no access to it.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the 
    Mercator's World site yourself <A 
    href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</A>&gt;, and 
    let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, 
    what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume 
    that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were 
    changed.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<A 
    href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</A>&gt; also recently 
    altered the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be 
    relatively simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us 
    who provide multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a 
    considerable amount of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any 
    people who have bookmarked individual articles, or provided links to them, 
    will now have dead links [of which they may well be unaware].&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; 
    [I know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done 
    at MapForum!].</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 
    Ockendon Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><A 
    href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 
    6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History 
    of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A 
    href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:09:44 +0900
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Henny Savenije <adam&eve@HENNY-SAVENIJE.DEMON.NL>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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<x-flowed>
Interesting all these answers, for a while I thought I was reading email from the web developers email list I am also subscribed to. Anyhow, I checked it, and it seems they have more than two mistakes. And indeed Netscape 4.xx can't or won't or doesn't want to handle that.

This is also a good test to see if my email now arrives

At 07:22 AM 2/11/02, you wrote:
>I went back to pre-Paleolithic technology and found that Internet Explorer 
>3.1 (on Windows 3.1) worked fine as well.
>
>Dave


>I tested the Mercator's World site with three browsers.  Here's what I found:
>
>Internet Explorer 6: works OK
>Netscape 6.2: works OK
>Netscape 4.08: does not load
>
>Later,
>
>Dave Lawrence



Henny (Lee Hae Kang)
-----------------------------

Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl (in English) In Korean
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/indexk2.htm In Dutch
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/FritsVos Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://odin.prohosting.com/savenije/index.htm#bovenaan (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon
http://www.geocities.com/hennysavenije
The way a ship was rigged:
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures
http://cloud.prohosting.com/hsavenij/index.htm#bovenaan Genealogy
http://www.geocities.com/hennysavenije/genealogy

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From: WJWarren@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:16:24 EST
Subject: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
To: Maphist@geog.UU.NL
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I thought I might be the only one still using Netscape 4.7 as a browser. Same problem as Tony and others reported with both the new and old addresses for Mercators World. However, no problem with using AOL direct connect to reach them.  
Bill Warren
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:49:58 -0600
From: jason carr <mouse@mousetrap.net>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Organization: http://www.mousetrap.net
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>   From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On
>   Behalf
> Of tony campbell
>   Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:05 AM

>   I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World -
> since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.   I have been ...
>   My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies
> disabled.  From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to

It's an HTML problem on the site.  They're using a form of html preprocessor (probably a PHP variant) to control site consistency but the logic is off in a few places, causing the errors you describe.

The homepage (to use a specific example) has 18 <table> tags opened (!) but only 16 of them are closed with the mandatory </table> tag.  This error confuses browsers, with Netscape feeling it the hardest.   The traditional ways non-MSIE browsers deal with the confusion is to stop rendering the page: hence the blank-appearing page.  MSIE is indiscriminate and will render almost anything.

You can test this theory by getting the "blank page" error and then doing a View | Source to see that the markup really is being sent to the browser.

jc,
who was the Cartographic Connections web guy in a previous life.

L.V.X., jc
work - http://www.mousetrap.net
play - http://www.mousetrap.net/~mouse/ OTR  - http://www.mousetrap.net/otr/
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:58:30 -0800
From: Hubert Johnson <mandraki@EROLS.COM>
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To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
CC: Gary Turley <gturley@asterpub.com>, miles.bw@BTINTERNET.COM
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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<x-html>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Tony
<p>I tried the link you provided using Netscape 4.7 and I came up blank.&nbsp; I then did a Google search and found that it reflected www.mercatormag.com as the URL, as opposed to the one you listed, but that also came up with just a blank screen&nbsp; I switched over to Microsoft Explorer 5.0 and the site came up easily.
<p>I suspect, but do not know, that the problem may be in the generation of Netscape browser that you and I are using.&nbsp; We both have a 4.x version, whereas the current standard is 6.2.&nbsp; I have been meaning to upgrade and it may be that this is becoming a necessity as opposed to an option.
<p>Can someone with Netscape 6.2 let us know the results?
<p>Thanks.
<br>Bert
<p>tony campbell wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
I wonder if the difficulties I am
having in accessing Mercator's World - since the URL changes at the end of last year - affect only me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in discussion with Gary Turley, the Editor, for some months now but neither he nor his webmaster have been able to explain my difficulty.&nbsp; If it is only me, then it is of no great importance.&nbsp; If, however, the restructuring of their site means that other people can no longer access the articles and information they have put online, this would clearly be a loss - for them and the wider community.&nbsp;I have also pointed out to Gary that all the links I inserted into my 'Web articles' page &lt; <a href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html</a>
> to the many Mercator's World articles that have been placed online are now dead.&nbsp; However, before I alter the links (as now seems necessary) I need to be sure that they are still generally accessible.&nbsp;My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies disabled.&nbsp; From my PC, I am presented with an empty page when I go to their new URL &lt; www.mercatorsworld.com>.&nbsp; It loads, and says 'Document done', but there is nothing there.&nbsp; I had no difficulties before the URL changes.&nbsp; I can get through to the site using Explorer, though the old links to individual articles are now dead there as well.&nbsp;&nbsp;I have told Gary that I hope this does not mean that the Mercator's World site is now barred to Netscape users.&nbsp; I fully understand that he is not aware of this having definitely happened, and I know he would be unhappy if it had.&nbsp; However, I always check all links on my site (via Netscape) before including a link, and I have never had a problem of this kind before.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a matter of principle, I would have to think very carefully before including a link, if Netscape users had no access to it.&nbsp;But, maybe I am running ahead of myself here.&nbsp; Please check the Mercator's World site yourself <a href="http://www.mercatorsworld.com">&lt;www.mercatorsworld.com</a>>, and let me know (probably offlist) if you have any difficulty.&nbsp; If you do, what browser are you using?&nbsp; If I hear nothing, I will have to assume that something has happened to my PC, at about the time the URLs were changed.&nbsp;Most of you will probably know that MapForum &lt;<a href="http://www.mapforum.com">www.mapforum.com</a>> also recently altered the URLs of its existing webpages.&nbsp; These changes may be relatively simple for the webmaster.&nbsp; However, they involve those of us who provide multiple links (such as Roelof Oddens and myself) with a considerable amount of boring work.&nbsp;&nbsp; It also means that any people who have bookmarked individual articles, or provided links to them, will now have dead links [of which they may well be unaware].&nbsp;Webmasters, please think carefully before you change your URLs!&nbsp; [I know Miles Baynton-Williams now understands the effect of what was done at MapForum!].&nbsp;***************************************** <br>Tony Campbell
<br>76 Ockendon Road
<br>London N1 3NW
<br>UK&nbsp;<a href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</a>&nbsp;Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 6477 <br>****************************************** <br>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' <br><a href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;</blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:52:15 -0800
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Barry Ruderman <blr@RAREMAPS.COM>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Commercial postings with list of items
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<x-flowed>
Dear Peter and list,

Maptrade is alive and well, and has recently surpassed the 1000 subscriber mark.

We encourage dealer catalogue listings, website updates, offers of individual or groups of maps and atlases for sale or trade, want lists and general questions and discussions about antique maps or the history of cartography.   Anyone need subscription info (majordomo software) can inquire by responding to me off list at blr@raremaps.com


Barry Lawrence Ruderman
Antique Maps Inc.               Gallery Address: www.raremaps.com                1298 Prospect, Suite 2C blr@raremaps.com                La Jolla, CA  92037 858.551.8500                    Gallery Hours: Mon-Fri 9 a.m.-4p.m.
                                 weekends and evenings by appointment

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:04:22 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Owner MapHist <owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Historiographical Approaches to the History of Cartography
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<x-flowed>
This message was sent to my private address (maphist@maphist.nl).
The address for sending posting to MapHist is maphist@geog.uu.nl Peter

>From: "Matthew Edney" <edney@usm.maine.edu>
>Organization: University of Southern Maine
>To: maphist@maphist.nl
>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:22:54 -0400
>Subject: Historiographical Approaches to the History of Cartography
>
>Dear All:
>
>I have been off maphist while on sabbatical, so I have missed the
>recent thread deriving from Evelyn Edson's bibliographical essay. A
>friend, however, passed me one of the messages in which Paul van
>den Brink noted that he had, in Madrid, recommended to the
>organizers of the next international conference on the history of
>cartography (15-20 June 2003; see http://www.ichc2003.org) that
>there be a session on historiographical approaches.
>
>As the call for papers will make clear, when it is issued later this
>year, we will accept proposals for individual papers as well as for
>entire sessions. (Note that proposals for a session must include
>abstracts for each of its papers and cannot comprise only the idea
>for the session.) The specified themes for the conference will be:
>
>1) cartography, states, and empires
>2) cartographic literacy and culture
>3) cartography and commerce
>4) mapping the Americas
>5) any other aspect of the history of cartography
>
>So, if anyone (Paul?) would like to organize a session on
>historiographic issues (or any other topic) -- whether tightly focused
>under themes 1-4 or more general under theme 5 -- the program
>committee for the 2003 international conference would *love* to see
>it.
>
>I look forward to seeing everyone in Cambridge, MA and Portland,
>ME in June 2003 !!!!
>
>Matthew
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Matthew Edney
>
>Associate Professor                          (207) 780-4767
>Geography-Anthropology                   fax (207) 780-5310
>American & New England Studies          edney@usm.maine.edu
>
>        check it out: http://usm.maine.edu/maps/
>                      http://usm.maine.edu/maps/edney/
>
>Osher Map Library & Smith Center for Cartographic Education
>                 University of Southern Maine
>            P.O. Box 9301, Portland, ME 04104-9301
>-----------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:53:44 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven <vanscho@ozemail.com.au>
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator's World online
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G'Day,

I was successful in viewing the Mercator's World web site http://www.mercatorsworld.com/ just a few minutes ago.  I am using Netscape Communicator 4.74 (with  'Accept only cookies that get sent back to the originating server'  enabled). 

Cheers,

Duane Van Schoonhoven
South Australia

> tony campbell wrote:
> 
> I wonder if the difficulties I am having in accessing Mercator's World 
> ....snip....
> My preferred browser is Netscape (4.1), and it is set with cookies disabled.
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:42:00 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven <vanscho@ozemail.com.au>
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G'Day,

Please belay my last. I was wrong, I was using Internet Explorer 5.0, not Netscape Communicator.  :-(

Cheers,

Duane Van Schoonhoven
South Australia


I wrote:

> I was successful in viewing the Mercator's World ....snip....
> I am using Netscape Communicator 4.74.....
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:30:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug McIlroy <doug@tahoe.cs.dartmouth.edu>
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL, turley@easterpub.com
Subject: [MapHist] checking web page syntax
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In connection with recent exchanges about the invisibility of web pages from Mercator's World, anyone posting a web page to a wide audience would do well to have the syntax checked by the official www consortium.  It's a quick free service at http://www.w3c.com.

The custom (dubiously endorsed by the HTML standard) of browsers attempting to guess the meaning of poorly constructed web pages has predictably fostered Babel, and invited laxness in page-composition programs.

Doug McIlroy
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:38:19 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Owner MapHist <owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] List-owner's message about the MW-website
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<x-flowed>
List,

Please send your experiences with the Mercator's World-website to Tony and/or MW personally. The
list already knows that there is an error in this website, and it is not necessary that 650 subscribers let all the 649 others know which system they use.


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:36:47 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Town view of Regensburg by Danckerts  
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<x-flowed>
  Non-member submission from ["Theodor Bauer" <theodor.bauer@bsb-muenchen.de>]

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:24:12 +0100
From: "Theodor Bauer" <theodor.bauer@bsb-muenchen.de> Subject: Town view of Regensburg by Danckerts

Dear maphisters,

in the Department Map Collection and Picture Archive of the Bavarian State Library Munich there are 22 sheet of description (obviously bound to acompany a town view of Regensburg, edited by Cornelis Danckerts in 1653.
Unfortunately indeed there is only the text left. Taken this painfull absence into consideration I should be very keen to be taught by some friendly subscriber to this list, whether there actually is such a town view in existence someplace (I very superficially searched google and some catalogues, not all of the literature yet, I'm afraid)  and if so, where I might find a description of this.

Greetings
Theo Bauer

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:38:06 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West Africa
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<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["pstover@portolangroup.com" <res089jd@verizon.net>]

From: "pstover@portolangroup.com" <res089jd@verizon.net> To: "Maphist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West Africa Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:01:32 -0500

Greetings:

I am reading a wonderful book on the history of the Niger River. In it, = the author talks about a large community of Jewish astrolabe and map = makers who greatly influenced the impressions of Western Africa via = their charts and maps.  I would guess the Catalan Atlas is an example of = that.

Several months ago I was browsing through the wonderful portolan = collection of The Newberry Library.  I was very intrigued by Star of = David flags flying over the modern areas of Borgu and Bornu in Nigeria = on one of their Genoese portolans.  I am also intrigued that some of the = Kisra traditions regarding the founding of those two kingdoms seem to = indicate that Kisra may have been a Jew (Mockler-Ferryman's work on the = Niger, for example).=20

Having said all that, I am hungry for further sources on this Majorca = Jewish group and their possible connections to depictions of West Africa = on maps and portolans.  Does anyone know of any good resource material = in either English or Spanish on this community or their portrayal of = West Africa? The Star of David flags fluttering over modern Nigeria are = of special interest to me.  In every other part of Western and Northern = Africa the flags were the tradition crescent moons.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Phil Stover

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:27:05 -0500
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West
  Africa
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<x-flowed>
While not a specific answer to Phil Stover's query, I would point out that the "Star of David" (or the "Magen David") is by no means a specifically Jewish symbol, has a rich and elaborate history, and that older graphic representations might sometimes have to be considered accordingly.
        See: <http://www.euronet.nl/users/pi_alfa/david1e.htm>

                <http://www.menorah.org/starofdavid.html>

                    Joel Kovarsky

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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Fwd: Historiographical Approaches to the History of Cartography
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:39:21 +0000
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From: Francisco Domingues <fcdomingues@clix.pt>
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>>So, if anyone (Paul?) would like to organize a session on
>>historiographic issues (or any other topic) -- whether tightly focused
>>under themes 1-4 or more general under theme 5 -- the program
>>committee for the 2003 international conference would *love* to see
>>it.

I would like to consider a participation in a session about historiographical issues, if someone will organize it. In order to discuss that possibility, request of an abstract, etc, my email contact is fcdomingues@clix.pt

Francisco Contente Domingues
Dep. of History
University of Lisbon, Portugal
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From: "Carol Ely" <ely@iglou.com>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] checking web page syntax
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:27:16 -0500
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Subject: [MapHist] checking web page syntax


> In connection with recent exchanges about the invisibility of web pages
> from Mercator's World, anyone posting a web page to a wide audience
> would do well to have the syntax checked by the official www
> consortium.  It's a quick free service at http://www.w3c.com.

You mean http://www.w3c.org

Very useful.

Carol Ely


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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:28:24 +0100
Subject: Re : [MapHist] Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West
	 Africa
From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr>
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<x-html>
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re : [MapHist] Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West Africa</TITLE> </HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<FONT FACE="Times New Roman">I would be pleased to have the exact portolan reference and dating. I have a good book on portolan but I found no such representations. A view or image would be valuable.<BR> <BR>
<BR>
Jean-Pierre MARTIN<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
----------<BR>
&gt;De : owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist &lt;maphist@maphist.nl&gt;)<BR> &gt;À : maphist@geog.UU.NL<BR>
&gt;Objet : [MapHist] Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West Africa<BR> &gt;Date : Lun 11 fév 2002 17:38<BR>
&gt;<BR>
<BR>
&gt; Non-member submission from [&quot;pstover@portolangroup.com&quot;<BR> &gt; &lt;res089jd@verizon.net&gt;]<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; From: &quot;pstover@portolangroup.com&quot; &lt;res089jd@verizon.net&gt;<BR> &gt; To: &quot;Maphist&quot; &lt;maphist@geog.uu.nl&gt;<BR> &gt; Subject: Majorca Jewish Map/Instrument community and West Africa<BR> &gt; Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:01:32 -0500<BR> &gt;<BR>
&gt; Greetings:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; I am reading a wonderful book on the history of the Niger River. In it, =<BR> &gt; the author talks about a large community of Jewish astrolabe and map =<BR> &gt; makers who greatly influenced the impressions of Western Africa via =<BR> &gt; their charts and maps. &nbsp;I would guess the Catalan Atlas is an example of =<BR> &gt; that.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Several months ago I was browsing through the wonderful portolan =<BR> &gt; collection of The Newberry Library. &nbsp;I was very intrigued by Star of =<BR> &gt; David flags flying over the modern areas of Borgu and Bornu in Nigeria =<BR> &gt; on one of their Genoese portolans. &nbsp;I am also intrigued that some of the =<BR> &gt; Kisra traditions regarding the founding of those two kingdoms seem to =<BR> &gt; indicate that Kisra may have been a Jew (Mockler-Ferryman's work on the =<BR> &gt; Niger, for example).=20<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Having said all that, I am hungry for further sources on this Majorca =<BR> &gt; Jewish group and their possible connections to depictions of West Africa =<BR> &gt; on maps and portolans. &nbsp;Does anyone know of any good resource material =<BR> &gt; in either English or Spanish on this community or their portrayal of =<BR> &gt; West Africa? The Star of David flags fluttering over modern Nigeria are =<BR> &gt; of special interest to me. &nbsp;In every other part of Western and Northern =<BR> &gt; Africa the flags were the tradition crescent moons.<BR> &gt;<BR>
&gt; Thanks in advance for any help.<BR> &gt;<BR>
&gt; Phil Stover<BR>
&gt;<BR>
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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Erhard
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:05:30 -0000
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Or, in case you don't have the bibliographic details (including ISBN) for the short-title reference provided:-

Tooley's dictionary of mapmakers. - Rev. ed. / editor : Josephine French ; consulting editors : Valerie Scott, Mary Alice Lowenthal. - Riverside CT : Early World Press, 2001-03 [?] . - 4 vol. (ill., maps, portr.) ; 26 cm. - Vol. 1 : A - D was published by Map Collector Publications (Tring, 1999) 

E - J. - 2001. - vi,462p. - Corrigenda to some entries in vol. 1 (A - D) are incorporated within main text. - ISBN 0-906430-19-4

(Available for UK and Europe customers from: Map Collector Publications, Suite E, Oakley House, Mill Street, Aylesbury, Bucks HP20 1BN; tel.: (0)1296-395866; fax: (0)1296-392766; e-mail: gp86@dial.pipex.com)

Francis Herbert
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Overlee Farm Books [SMTP:overlee@BCN.NET]
> Sent:	07 February 2002 01:09
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	Re: [MapHist] Erhard
> 
> Probably is Georges Erhard Schieble.  See Tooley's Dictionary of
> Mapmakers.
> 
> List-owner MapHist wrote:
> 
> >   Non-member submission from [Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>]
> >
> > >From: Webb Adrian <Adrian.Webb@ukho.gov.uk>
> > >To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maphist@maphist.nl
> > >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:11:35 -0000
> > >
> > >I have a copy of: Bennet, James Henry.  Winter and spring on the shores
> =
> > >of
> > >the Mediterranean [etc.]. - 3rd ed. - London : J & A Churchill, 1875,
> =
> > >for
> > >which the maps are all "Grav=E9 par Erhard ... Paris, Imp. Monrocq".
> > >
> > >Can anyone give me a reference for Erhard's full name and dates?=20
> > >
> > >Thanks=20
> > >
> > >Jane=20
> > >
> > >Jane Wickenden,=20
> > >Historic Collections Librarian=20
> > >Institute of Naval Medicine=20
> > >Alverstoke=20
> > >Hampshire  PO12 2DL=20
> > >
> > >023 927-68238=20
> > >(Medal Room, Monckton House)=20
> >
> > Peter van der Krogt
> > List-owner MapHist
> >
> > List-info: http://www.maphist.nl
> >
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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Faden map of Herefordshire canals
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:02:46 -0000
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Richard:

We are all assuming (are we not?) that you have checked in the following bibliography, and found your item wanting:-

British civil engineering 1640-1840 : a bibliography of contemporary reports, plans and books / A. W. Skempton. - London ; New York : Mansell, 1987. - xvii,302p. : ill., maps ; 25 cm. - Contains 1914 entries arranged alphabetically by engineer's name, with a subject ind. (but no ind. of names of draughtsman, cartographer, publisher, etc.). - Locations of items given.
- ISBN 0-7201-1746-1

[transcribed from 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' entry no. 88:40(023) in vol.40 (1988)]

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Cartographics [SMTP:Carto@TESCO.NET]
> Sent:	10 February 2002 16:18
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	[MapHist] Faden map of Herefordshire canals
> 
> I have an undated and untitled map of proposed canals in Herefordshire
> which
> is causing me a problem.  It was engraved by William Faden, Charing Cross.
> I suspect that it was prepared to accompany the printed version of a
> report
> by Robert Whitworth dated 20 December 1777, but would welcome some
> confirmation.
> If anyone has access to a print of this report containing the original map
> I
> would be grateful if they could get in touch with me.
> 
> From:  Richard Dean, 49 Grange Road, Biddulph, Stoke on Trent ST8 7RY, UK.
> E-mail Maps@cartographics.co.uk  Phone 01782-513449
> 
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From: "henk van der heijden" <h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] Baldwyn
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:45:02 +0100
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To all
Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this atlas :
 G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
H.A.M. van der Heijden
Lange Reen 2
5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
0497- 514637

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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Baldwyn
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:56:22 -0000
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Henk van der Heijden:

Library of Royal Geographical Society (with IBG): 523.F

But be aware that this is not an atlas but a typical 18th-century 'geography' illustrated with plates (cartographic [some by T. Conder and by T.Kitchen] and non-cartographic).  What precisely do you wish to discover?

Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG) f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	henk van der heijden [SMTP:h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl]
> Sent:	13 February 2002 12:45
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	[MapHist] Baldwyn
> 
> To all
> Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this
> atlas
> :
>  G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> H.A.M. van der Heijden
> Lange Reen 2
> 5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> 0497- 514637
> 
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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Baldwyn
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:23:59 -0000
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Barbara:

Sorry to correct you (and/or your records at home), but I've physically checked our "[1791]" volume.  On those few plates that have dates of 1794 the vertical line of the last numeral is so strong, and its 'cross-bar' for the '4' is often so faint, that one may be forgiven for quickly reading the last numeral as '1'.  This same trap was fallen into by the Library's cataloguer, who typed the date as "(1791)".

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Barbara McCorkle [SMTP:bmccork@ukans.edu]
> Sent:	14 February 2002 14:51
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn
> 
> Henk:  I've found the Baldwyn volume at the following locations:  Royal
> Geographical Society, 523F [1791]; Library of Congress, Rare Book Room,
> G114.B19;  Yale University Library, EEa 794b; the ESTC (Eighteenth Century
> Short Title Catalogue) lists it also in Canada at CaBVaU, shelf number
> G114.B19.  I'm not sure which Canadian library that is since I am at home
> and do not have access to the NUC library lists.  I have not seen that
> volume, but I have examined the others.  I have noted that the maps
> contained in the copies I have seen vary.
>     Barbara
> 
> At 01:45 PM 2/13/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >To all
> >Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this
> atlas
> >:
> > G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> >geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> >h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> >H.A.M. van der Heijden
> >Lange Reen 2
> >5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> >0497- 514637
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> -
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> >
> 
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From: "Ronald Whistance-Smith" <rwhistan@COMPUSMART.AB.CA>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn
Date: 	Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:36:52 -0700
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CaBVaU is the University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC, Canada.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara McCorkle" <bmccork@ukans.edu> To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn


> Henk:  I've found the Baldwyn volume at the following locations:  Royal
> Geographical Society, 523F [1791]; Library of Congress, Rare Book Room,
> G114.B19;  Yale University Library, EEa 794b; the ESTC (Eighteenth Century
> Short Title Catalogue) lists it also in Canada at CaBVaU, shelf number
> G114.B19.  I'm not sure which Canadian library that is since I am at home
> and do not have access to the NUC library lists.  I have not seen that
> volume, but I have examined the others.  I have noted that the maps
> contained in the copies I have seen vary.
>     Barbara
>
> At 01:45 PM 2/13/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >To all
> >Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this atlas
> >:
> > G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> >geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> >h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> >H.A.M. van der Heijden
> >Lange Reen 2
> >5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> >0497- 514637
> >
>
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> >
>
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From: "Don Holeman" <dholeman1@home.com>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the Steiler Handatlas
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:50:21 -0500
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I am hoping that readers can help me to learn the history of the Steiler Handatlas, and point me to resources that will help me in this regard. I am particularly intertested in its origins and in any successors, and also details of the resident cartographers in the period ranging the turn of the nineteenth to twentieth centuries.

Thanks in advance.

Don Holeman


----- Original Message -----
From: "henk van der heijden" <h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: [MapHist] Baldwyn


> To all
> Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this atlas
> :
>  G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> H.A.M. van der Heijden
> Lange Reen 2
> 5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> 0497- 514637
>
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
> Unsubscribe from this list by sending a message to majordomo@geog.uu.nl
> with the following line in the body:
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> where <email> is replaced by your email address.

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:56:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Frances Woodward <franwood@interchange.ubc.ca>
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn
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Hello, Henk,

As Barbara McCorkle and Ron Whistance-Smith said, we do have this book in the University of British Columbia Library. Were you looking for locations of the book, or do you have questions about it?

Best wishes,
	Fran


On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, henk van der heijden wrote:

> To all
> Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this atlas
> :
>  G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> H.A.M. van der Heijden
> Lange Reen 2
> 5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> 0497- 514637
> 
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> 

************************************************************************** Frances Woodward, Reference Librarian,
Special Collections, Main Library, 
University of British Columbia, 1956 Main Mall, Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z1
	Tel: (604) 822-2819  		Fax: (604) 822-9587  
	E-mail: franwood@interchange.ubc.ca
	URL: http://www.library.ubc.ca/spcoll/

Historical Maps Collection and Cartographic Archives Arkley Collection of Historical Children's Literature **************************************************************************

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:30:38 +0100
From: Göran Bäärnhielm <goran.baarnhielm@kb.se>
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To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the Steiler Handatlas
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Look into:
Espenhorst, Jürgen, Andree, Stieler, Meyer & Co : Handatlanten des deutschen Sprachraums (1800 - 1945) nebst Vorläufern und Abkömmlingen im In- und Ausland : bibliographisches Handbuch / Jürgen Espenhorst ; mit einem Vorwort von Lothar Zögner. -Schwerte : Pangaea-Verlag, 1994. - ISBN: 3-930401-33-9.
Bests regards
Göran Bäärnhielm, Map Curator   
Kungl. biblioteket - The Royal Library - National Library of Sweden P.O. Box 5039, SE-102 41 Stockholm, Sweden Tel.: +46-8-463 4180. Fax: +46-8-463 4328.
E-mail: goran.baarnhielm@kb.se
 

Don Holeman skrev:
> 
> I am hoping that readers can help me to learn the history of the Steiler
> Handatlas, and point me to resources that will help me in this regard. I am
> particularly intertested in its origins and in any successors, and also
> details of the resident cartographers in the period ranging the turn of the
> nineteenth to twentieth centuries.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Don Holeman
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:45:37 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the Steiler (=
  Stieler) Handatlas
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<x-flowed>
For Stieler (spelling!) see:
Jürgen Espenhorst, Andree, Stieler, Meyer & Co.: Handatlanten des deutschen Sprachraums (1800-1945) nebst Vorläfern und Abkömmlingen im In- und Austland: Bibliographisches Handbuch [title on cover:] Andree, Stieler, Meyer & Co.: Bibliographie der Handatlanten. - Schwerte: Pangaea Verlag, 1994. - 432 pp. - ISBN 3-930401-33-9. [Author's & publisher's address: Pangaea Verlag, z.Hd. Svenja Espenhorst, Villigster Str. 32, 58239 Schwerte, Germany].
Espenhorst gives bibliographical descriptions of all German 'Handatlases' with detailed information on all editions.

On 26 March 1997 George Crossman wrote about this book to MapHist (thanks to the MapHist CD-Rom - new edition now available - I found this message again!):

We thought it would be of interest to some members of the Map History forum to know that Juergen and I are currently embarked on the creation of an English language International Guide to German Handatlases and their Siblings, to be published hopefully sometime in 1998.
This work, which was suggested by Dr. Ronald Grim of the Geography and Mapping Division of the Library of Congress, who is assisting us as collaborator
and consultant, will seek to do three things: - Provide an English translation of the text of the German bibliography, as a help to non-German readers who wish to make use of Jürgen's excellent work; - Augment the German text with additional background discussion of the 19th century German context in which the great German handatlases were created, for the benefit of those who are not familiar with German history in the 19th and
early 20th century; and
- Update the bibliography by including several recently reported handatlases which were unknown to the author at the time the 1995 supplement was published.
Currently, approximately one-third of the work has been completed, consisting of the text for five of the first six atlas families discussed in the German bibliography, plus a greatly augmented version of the initial introductory Chapter
0.
(end quote)

Does anybody knows if this English translation and updated version of Espenhorst's book is ever published?

Peter

At 18:50 13-2-2002, you wrote:
>I am hoping that readers can help me to learn the history of the Steiler
>Handatlas, and point me to resources that will help me in this regard. I am
>particularly intertested in its origins and in any successors, and also
>details of the resident cartographers in the period ranging the turn of the
>nineteenth to twentieth centuries.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Don Holeman


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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</x-flowed>
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:16:38 -0800
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Derek Hayes  <derek@derekhayes.ca>
Subject: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map
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Having now found some more information about the Desliens world map I thought I should let the list know.

Here I am referring to the map in the Sächsische Landesbibliothek, in Dresden, Germany, attributed to 1541. 

My concern stemmed from a footnote in an item on the 1542 Rotz atlas by David Quinn in his book "European Approaches to North America, 1450-1640" (Ashgate Variorum, Aldershot, UK, 1998) in which he footnotes the Desliens map as "now clear that the date was misread [on a reproduction] and that it was dated 1561." 

I have now been assured by Dr Georg Zimmermann, the curator of the map division at Sächsische Landesbibliothek, that they have the original map, and that it is indeed dated 1541.

Thus the 1541 Desliens stands as the first of the Dieppe school - or any map - to contain the name Canada. This name was bestowed upon part of the St Lawrence by Jacques Cartier, although many of the Dieppe maps, including the Desliens, do not show it in that location.

I am still a little uneasy that so eminent a scholar as David Quinn should date this Desliens map at 1561. One is tempted to think he must have confused it with the other two Desliens, 1566 and 1567, but this seems unlikely. On the other hand Quinn also said the map had been destroyed, and it clearly has not. If anyone has any further information I should be delighted to hear about it.
Thanks

Derek Hayes


------------------------
Derek Hayes

Vancouver, BC Canada

derek@derekhayes.ca

http://www.derekhayes.ca

Phone 604 541 7850

Author: 
Historical Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest (1999) Historical Atlas of the Pacific Northwest (US edition, 1999) First Crossing: Alexander Mackenzie, His Expedition Across North America, and the Opening of a Continent (2001)
Historical Atlas of the North Pacific Ocean (2001)

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From: "Cartographics" <Carto@TESCO.NET>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Faden map of Herefordshire canals
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:41:30 -0000
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Thank you Francis.
You assumed correctly.  Unfortunately the earliest entry for Robert Whitworth is 1794.
Richard

Richard Dean, 49 Grange Road, Biddulph, Stoke on Trent ST8 7RY, UK.  E-mail Maps@cartographics.co.uk  Phone 01782-513449

-----Original Message-----

Richard:

We are all assuming (are we not?) that you have checked in the following bibliography, and found your item wanting:-

British civil engineering 1640-1840 : a bibliography of contemporary reports, plans and books / A. W. Skempton. - London ; New York : Mansell, 1987. - xvii,302p. : ill., maps ; 25 cm. - Contains 1914 entries arranged alphabetically by engineer's name, with a subject ind. (but no ind. of names of draughtsman, cartographer, publisher, etc.). - Locations of items given.
- ISBN 0-7201-1746-1

[transcribed from 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' entry no. 88:40(023) in vol.40 (1988)]

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> I have an undated and untitled map of proposed canals in Herefordshire
> which
> is causing me a problem.  It was engraved by William Faden, Charing Cross.
> I suspect that it was prepared to accompany the printed version of a
> report
> by Robert Whitworth dated 20 December 1777, but would welcome some
> confirmation.
> If anyone has access to a print of this report containing the original map
> I
> would be grateful if they could get in touch with me.
>
> From:  Richard Dean, 49 Grange Road, Biddulph, Stoke on Trent ST8 7RY, UK.
> E-mail Maps@cartographics.co.uk  Phone 01782-513449
>
>

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:48:15 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal
  Signs
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<x-flowed>
Jean-Pierre Martin, and list,

Continuing on the query for the Prime Meridian on Martin Behaim's globe. 
Finally I found the time to consult my copy of Focus Behaim Globus.
 From the illustrations it is clear that the Prime Meridian does not run through Greenwich or London, not even through the British Isles, but in the center of the Atlantic Ocean, about 15 degrees east of Japan and 75 degrees west of Cape Verde. I can't find a specific reference, but it seems according the Ptolemean tradition. This agrees with the essay by Ulrich Knefelkamp, Der Behaim Globus und die Kartographie seiner Zeit, in which it is made clear that Behaim's source was, int.al., the Ulm edition of Ptolemy's Geographia and the world map by Henricus Martellus (c. 1489).

On the globe only a few celestial circles are drawn: the equator, tropics and polar circles, the ecliptic (with the signs of the zodiac), and further the prime meridian.

To come back on Jean-Pierre's question: as far as I know the ecliptic has always the zodiacal signs, since that is the basis of the division of the eclipic in degrees. In most cases only the symbols are used (check several illustrations in my Globi Neerlandici, int.al. p. 538, Janssonius's terrestrial gores, 1621; p. 560, terrestrial globe by Valk, 1700 - illustration of title, zodiacal signs left and right of the text). On Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is indeed exceptional.

Peter

At 11:10 5-2-2002, you wrote:
>I have a question on the Martin Benhaim globe (1492) which may be answered 
>by some of you.
>
>The zodiacal path is indicated with the astrological signs.
>
>In my view, the signs indicated are the astrological zodiac, beginning 
>with aries at vernal point. (here the balance on the equator  is linked 
>with a greenwich meridian (approximatively) and the autumn equinox 
>(balance), (could be interpreted as the beginning of the year?).
>
>My questions are:
>- do you know of other representations of zodiacs signs on terrestrial 
>globes (more often ecliptic is drawn alone without signs)?
>- do you know some links, text or studies references on the history of the 
>various origin meridians (Ptolemy  alledged origin meridian by the 
>Canarian islands, the portugal kings and popes one if I remember well was 
>on the Açores or Canarians?, apart from the French Paris one I know) and 
>specifically the choice of the Greenwich meridian (I have been on the web 
>but found nothing valuable)?
>- why Martin Benhaim has chosen such a representation with the greenwich 
>meridian, at that time?
>
>
>Jean-Pierre MARTIN
>


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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From: "Ed Dahl" <edahl@iosphere.net>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens "1541" World Map
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:31:04 -0500
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The dating of the Desliens chart done by David Quinn is not as big a mystery as suggested in the posting below.

Quinn gives his reasons for his opinions / conclusions on page 40 of the introduction to the facsimile edition of John Rotz's "Boke of Idrography" (Oxford, for The Roxburghe Club, 1981).

Since for so many decades the chart was believed to have been destroyed during the war, it would be good to have some additional information from the Sächsische Landesbibliothek, in Dresden, Germany, that confirms that they indeed have the original chart.
(A facsimile was apparently made in 1903.)  If the original does in fact exist, this is wonderful news.

*****
The following message appeared on the "German MapHist" -- called "dach-karthist" -- on Monday, indicating that perhaps further research is taking place:

From: "W.G. Koch" <koch@karst9.geo.tu-dresden.de> To: <dach-karthist@library2.ethz.ch>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:07 AM Subject: Re: Desliens-Weltkarte in der Sächsischen Landesbibliothek

Lieber Herr Oehrli, ich werde versuchen, die Sache (Desliens-Weltkarte) zu klaeren. Ich bitte um etwas Geduld.   Beste Gruesse, W.G. Koch *****

Ed Dahl, 1292 Montée Paiement, Gatineau (Québec)
     J8R 3K5  CANADA
INTERNET:  edahl@iosphere.net
TEL:  (819) 561-4029    FAX:  (819) 561-7753

----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Hayes" <derek@derekhayes.ca> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:16 PM Subject: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map


Having now found some more information about the Desliens world map I thought I should let the list know.

Here I am referring to the map in the Sächsische Landesbibliothek, in Dresden, Germany, attributed to 1541.

My concern stemmed from a footnote in an item on the 1542 Rotz atlas by David Quinn in his book "European Approaches to North America, 1450-1640" (Ashgate Variorum, Aldershot, UK, 1998) in which he footnotes the Desliens map as "now clear that the date was misread [on a reproduction] and that it was dated 1561."

I have now been assured by Dr Georg Zimmermann, the curator of the map division at Sächsische Landesbibliothek, that they have the original map, and that it is indeed dated 1541.

Thus the 1541 Desliens stands as the first of the Dieppe school - or any map - to contain the name Canada. This name was bestowed upon part of the St Lawrence by Jacques Cartier, although many of the Dieppe maps, including the Desliens, do not show it in that location.

I am still a little uneasy that so eminent a scholar as David Quinn should date this Desliens map at 1561. One is tempted to think he must have confused it with the other two Desliens, 1566 and 1567, but this seems unlikely. On the other hand Quinn also said the map had been destroyed, and it clearly has not. If anyone has any further information I should be delighted to hear about it.
Thanks

Derek Hayes
------------------------
Derek Hayes
Vancouver, BC Canada
derek@derekhayes.ca
http://www.derekhayes.ca
Phone 604 541 7850



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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Baldwyn
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:19:33 -0000
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Frances [et al.],

This is precisely what I asked in my (first) response to Henk ("What precisely do you wish to discover?") - and none of us yet have an answer!

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Frances Woodward [SMTP:franwood@interchange.ubc.ca]
> Sent:	13 February 2002 17:56
> To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject:	Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn
> 
> Hello, Henk,
> 
> As Barbara McCorkle and Ron Whistance-Smith said, we do have this book in
> the University of British Columbia Library. Were you looking for locations
> of the book, or do you have questions about it?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 	Fran
> 
> 
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, henk van der heijden wrote:
> 
> > To all
> > Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this
> atlas
> > :
> >  G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
> > geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
> > h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
> > H.A.M. van der Heijden
> > Lange Reen 2
> > 5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
> > 0497- 514637
> > 
> >  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> > 
> 
> **************************************************************************
> Frances Woodward, Reference Librarian,
> Special Collections, Main Library, 
> University of British Columbia, 1956 Main Mall, Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z1
> 	Tel: (604) 822-2819  		Fax: (604) 822-9587  
> 	E-mail: franwood@interchange.ubc.ca
> 	URL: http://www.library.ubc.ca/spcoll/
> 
> Historical Maps Collection and Cartographic Archives 
> Arkley Collection of Historical Children's Literature
> **************************************************************************
> 
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:00:19 +0100
From: "Jan Smits" <Jan.Smits@kb.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>, <dholeman1@home.com>
Subject: Betr.: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the Steiler
	Handatlas
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Dear Don,

I have written an 45,000-word essay in the framework of a to-be-published bibliography of maps in Petermann's Geographische Mitteilungen (PGM) 1855-1945. In first instance the biliography will be published in the series "Utrechts Historisch-Kartografische Studies = Utrecht Studies in Map History" of Explocart at Utrecht University (see: http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/explokart/index.html chapter 10).The essay is now under review with Mathew Edney. At the moment the planning is that it will be published this year, but may take a bit longer as the manuscript is now 1,000+ pages!

As the maps in PGM were closely related to, in first instance, the Stieler Handatlases and other products of the Perthes Publishing House in Gotha I have tried to show the development of all these products in relation with each other against the context of developments in cartography, geography and social/economic/political developments, with a heavy focus on the 19th century. Of course a large part of the text is devoted to persons involved with all these developments (Stieler, Heinrich and Hermann Berghaus,  Stu[e]lpnagel, Petermann, Vogel, Hassenstein, Hermann Wagner, Supan, Haack to name but a few.). And I have used Espendorf to look for certain chronologies and derivatives of the Stieler Handatlases.

I can give you some information privately or you have to wait till the publication materializes.

With kind regards,

Jan Smits


Jan Smits
Koninklijke Bibliotheek, National Library of The Netherlands P.O. Box 90.407
NL-2509 LK Den Haag
The Netherlands
tel: +31 70 3140241
fax: +31 70 3140450
E-mail: jan.smits@kb.nl
E-mail: skd@python.kb.nl (when the above does not function)

President Groupe des Cartothecaires de LIBER (GdC, European Map Curators Group) Chairman Working Group for Mapcuratorship, Dutch Cartographic Society (NVK) IFLA Representative for the ICA Spatial Data Standards Commission Secretary Dutch Commision for Cataloguing & Indexing FOBID (Federation of Organizations working in the Library-, Information-, and Documentation-field) WWW-maps: http://www.kb.nl/kb/skd/karto-en.html WWW-GdC: http://www.kb.nl/infolev/liber/intro.htm WWW-personal: http://www.kb.nl/persons/jan-smits/homepage.htm

Na matheis kai na matheis ap'tous spoudasmenous (To learn and again to learn from those who know)


>>> dholeman1@home.com 13-02-02 18:50 >>> I am hoping that readers can help me to learn the history of the Steiler Handatlas, and point me to resources that will help me in this regard. I am particularly intertested in its origins and in any successors, and also details of the resident cartographers in the period ranging the turn of the nineteenth to twentieth centuries.

Thanks in advance.

Don Holeman




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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:32:56 +0100
Subject: Re : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal
	 Signs
From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr>
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
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I apologize for not seeing the graduations of the terrestrial equator which are not readable on the image available to me, in a book on historical cartography. Besides it shows only a part of the globe. So I could'not verify what origin was given to longitudes or make any deductions concerning the graduations visible on the equator.

After looking the map again (developped one, not globe), the only readable reference concerns the letters D above the spindles for the Greenwich meridian" which could mean that the A was the origin so origin spindle could be 90° east greenwich or meridian 105° west as you mention, but this seems to me not significant and quite stunning (approximately mexican meridian).

So my "prime meridian" deduction was only coming from the fact that the zodiac ecliptic is cutting the terrestrial equator at a place which is the middle of a spindle centered on the approximate Greenwich location, and the balance for the ecliptic.

So my question yet remains analog in terms: why this connection? or are we obliged to say that it is a coincidence?

In my view this point  has sufficient great cosmological significance for not being simple drawing hazard. But I am not a scholar and I may find connections where there is not.

With my thanks for your search.


Jean-Pierre MARTIN



----------
>De : Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
>À : maphist@geog.UU.NL
>Objet : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs
>Date : Mer 13 fév 2002 20:48
>

> Jean-Pierre Martin, and list,
>
> Continuing on the query for the Prime Meridian on Martin Behaim's globe.
> Finally I found the time to consult my copy of Focus Behaim Globus.
>  From the illustrations it is clear that the Prime Meridian does not run
> through Greenwich or London, not even through the British Isles, but in the
> center of the Atlantic Ocean, about 15 degrees east of Japan and 75 degrees
> west of Cape Verde. I can't find a specific reference, but it seems
> according the Ptolemean tradition. This agrees with the essay by Ulrich
> Knefelkamp, Der Behaim Globus und die Kartographie seiner Zeit, in which it
> is made clear that Behaim's source was, int.al., the Ulm edition of
> Ptolemy's Geographia and the world map by Henricus Martellus (c. 1489).
>
> On the globe only a few celestial circles are drawn: the equator, tropics
> and polar circles, the ecliptic (with the signs of the zodiac), and further
> the prime meridian.
>
> To come back on Jean-Pierre's question: as far as I know the ecliptic has
> always the zodiacal signs, since that is the basis of the division of the
> eclipic in degrees. In most cases only the symbols are used (check several
> illustrations in my Globi Neerlandici, int.al. p. 538, Janssonius's
> terrestrial gores, 1621; p. 560, terrestrial globe by Valk, 1700 -
> illustration of title, zodiacal signs left and right of the text). On
> Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is
> indeed exceptional.
>
> Peter
>
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From: "Charles Burroughs" <stepladr@EROLS.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal  Signs
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:18:08 -0500
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To the List:

I found this discussion of the Behaim globe to be quite fascinating, with its discussion of the PM, Zodiacal Signs, etc.

So I opened my trusty 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica to that subject (Vol.3, Pg 324) and quote, in part:

" . . . On a visit to his native city in 1492 [from his adopted residence since the time of his marriage in 1486 at Fayal in the Azores - - this paraphrased from earlier in the write-up, C.A.B.], he constructed his terrestrial globe, still preserved in Nurem- berg, and often reproduced, in which the influence of Ptolemy is strongly apparent, but wherein some attempt is also made to incorporate the discoveries of the later middle ages (Marco Polo, etc.).  As a scientific work it is unimportant, ranking far below the portolani charts of the 14th century.  Its West Africa is marvelously incorrect; the Cape Verde archipelago lies hundreds of miles out of its proper place; and the Atlantic is filled with fabulous islands.
Blunders of 16* are found in the localization of places the author claims to have visited: contemporary maps, at least in regard to continental features, seldom went wrong beyond 1*. . . . "

The numerous early references cited for this write-up, dating from 1836 to 1904, would no doubt be of further interest.

Is it possible that Behaim's PM ran through his adopted residence in the Azores?

Charles @ Stepladder

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]  On Behalf Of Peter van der Krogt
Sent:	Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:48 PM To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject:	[MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs

Jean-Pierre Martin, and list,

Continuing on the query for the Prime Meridian on Martin Behaim's globe.
Finally I found the time to consult my copy of Focus Behaim Globus.
 From the illustrations it is clear that the Prime Meridian does not run through Greenwich or London, not even through the British Isles, but in the center of the Atlantic Ocean, about 15 degrees east of Japan and 75 degrees west of Cape Verde. I can't find a specific reference, but it seems according the Ptolemean tradition. This agrees with the essay by Ulrich Knefelkamp, Der Behaim Globus und die Kartographie seiner Zeit, in which it is made clear that Behaim's source was, int.al., the Ulm edition of Ptolemy's Geographia and the world map by Henricus Martellus (c. 1489).

On the globe only a few celestial circles are drawn: the equator, tropics and polar circles, the ecliptic (with the signs of the zodiac), and further the prime meridian.

To come back on Jean-Pierre's question: as far as I know the ecliptic has always the zodiacal signs, since that is the basis of the division of the eclipic in degrees. In most cases only the symbols are used (check several illustrations in my Globi Neerlandici, int.al. p. 538, Janssonius's terrestrial gores, 1621; p. 560, terrestrial globe by Valk, 1700 - illustration of title, zodiacal signs left and right of the text). On Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is indeed exceptional.

Peter

At 11:10 5-2-2002, you wrote:
>I have a question on the Martin Benhaim globe (1492) which may be answered
>by some of you.
>
>The zodiacal path is indicated with the astrological signs.
>
>In my view, the signs indicated are the astrological zodiac, beginning
>with aries at vernal point. (here the balance on the equator  is linked
>with a greenwich meridian (approximatively) and the autumn equinox
>(balance), (could be interpreted as the beginning of the year?).
>
>My questions are:
>- do you know of other representations of zodiacs signs on terrestrial
>globes (more often ecliptic is drawn alone without signs)?
>- do you know some links, text or studies references on the history of the
>various origin meridians (Ptolemy  alledged origin meridian by the
>Canarian islands, the portugal kings and popes one if I remember well was
>on the Açores or Canarians?, apart from the French Paris one I know) and
>specifically the choice of the Greenwich meridian (I have been on the web
>but found nothing valuable)?
>- why Martin Benhaim has chosen such a representation with the greenwich
>meridian, at that time?
>
>
>Jean-Pierre MARTIN
>


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:45:32 -0600
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Dan Terkla <terkla@titan.iwu.edu>
Subject: [MapHist] Critical Cartography Session
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Those of you finding yourselves in Kalamazoo, Michigan, on Saturday, 5 May, are most welcome to attend the following session, which runs from 10.00-11.30 a.m.

Session 457: Fetzer Hall 1005

                           Critical Cartography
                           Organizer: Dan Terkla, Illinois Wesleyan Univ.
                           Presider: Dan Terkla

                           How the Hereford Map Was Made
                           Scott D. Westrem, Graduate Center/Lehman College, CUNY
                           Organizing Space: Tradition, Innovation, and Invention in Medieval
		World Maps
                           Ingrid Baumgärtner, Univ. Kassel
                           J. B. Harley, Geographical Theory, and Medieval Cartography
                           Sylvia Tomasch, Hunter College, CUNY

More information on the 37th Annual Congress on Medieval Studies resides on their website at http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/congress/.

Best,
Dan Terkla

******************************
Dan Terkla
Associate Professor of English,
Humanities Sequence Coordinator
English House
Illinois Wesleyan University
Bloomington, IL 61702-2900
USA

Phone:	309-556-3649
Fax:	309-556-3545

"I have very little of Mr Blake's company; he is always in paradise."
				--Catherine on William Blake
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From: "John Fazli" <jfazli@IX.NETCOM.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal  Signs
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:21:17 -0500
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Behaim's prime meridian does NOT run through the Azores, which are prominently shown and identified as "Insule der Azores".  They are placed about equidistant from the meridian and the coast of Spain.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Burroughs" <stepladr@EROLS.COM> To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:18 AM Subject: RE: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs


> To the List:
>
> I found this discussion of the Behaim globe to be quite fascinating, with
> its discussion of the PM, Zodiacal Signs, etc.
>
> So I opened my trusty 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica to that subject (Vol.3,
> Pg 324) and quote, in part:
>
> " . . . On a visit to his native city in 1492 [from his adopted residence
> since the time of his marriage in 1486 at Fayal in the Azores - - this
> paraphrased from earlier in the write-up, C.A.B.], he constructed his
> terrestrial globe, still preserved in Nurem- berg, and often reproduced, in
> which the influence of Ptolemy is strongly apparent, but wherein some
> attempt is also made to incorporate the discoveries of the later middle ages
> (Marco Polo, etc.).  As a scientific work it is unimportant, ranking far
> below the portolani charts of the 14th century.  Its West Africa is
> marvelously incorrect; the Cape Verde archipelago lies hundreds of miles out
> of its proper place; and the Atlantic is filled with fabulous islands.
> Blunders of 16* are found in the localization of places the author claims to
> have visited: contemporary maps, at least in regard to continental features,
> seldom went wrong beyond 1*. . . . "
>
> The numerous early references cited for this write-up, dating from 1836 to
> 1904, would no doubt be of further interest.
>
> Is it possible that Behaim's PM ran through his adopted residence in the
> Azores?
>
> Charles @ Stepladder
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]  On Behalf
> Of Peter van der Krogt
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:48 PM
> To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
> Subject: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal
> Signs
>
> Jean-Pierre Martin, and list,
>
> Continuing on the query for the Prime Meridian on Martin Behaim's globe.
> Finally I found the time to consult my copy of Focus Behaim Globus.
>  From the illustrations it is clear that the Prime Meridian does not run
> through Greenwich or London, not even through the British Isles, but in the
> center of the Atlantic Ocean, about 15 degrees east of Japan and 75 degrees
> west of Cape Verde. I can't find a specific reference, but it seems
> according the Ptolemean tradition. This agrees with the essay by Ulrich
> Knefelkamp, Der Behaim Globus und die Kartographie seiner Zeit, in which it
> is made clear that Behaim's source was, int.al., the Ulm edition of
> Ptolemy's Geographia and the world map by Henricus Martellus (c. 1489).
>
> On the globe only a few celestial circles are drawn: the equator, tropics
> and polar circles, the ecliptic (with the signs of the zodiac), and further
> the prime meridian.
>
> To come back on Jean-Pierre's question: as far as I know the ecliptic has
> always the zodiacal signs, since that is the basis of the division of the
> eclipic in degrees. In most cases only the symbols are used (check several
> illustrations in my Globi Neerlandici, int.al. p. 538, Janssonius's
> terrestrial gores, 1621; p. 560, terrestrial globe by Valk, 1700 -
> illustration of title, zodiacal signs left and right of the text). On
> Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is
> indeed exceptional.
>
> Peter
>
> At 11:10 5-2-2002, you wrote:
> >I have a question on the Martin Benhaim globe (1492) which may be answered
> >by some of you.
> >
> >The zodiacal path is indicated with the astrological signs.
> >
> >In my view, the signs indicated are the astrological zodiac, beginning
> >with aries at vernal point. (here the balance on the equator  is linked
> >with a greenwich meridian (approximatively) and the autumn equinox
> >(balance), (could be interpreted as the beginning of the year?).
> >
> >My questions are:
> >- do you know of other representations of zodiacs signs on terrestrial
> >globes (more often ecliptic is drawn alone without signs)?
> >- do you know some links, text or studies references on the history of the
> >various origin meridians (Ptolemy  alledged origin meridian by the
> >Canarian islands, the portugal kings and popes one if I remember well was
> >on the Açores or Canarians?, apart from the French Paris one I know) and
> >specifically the choice of the Greenwich meridian (I have been on the web
> >but found nothing valuable)?
> >- why Martin Benhaim has chosen such a representation with the greenwich
> >meridian, at that time?
> >
> >
> >Jean-Pierre MARTIN
> >
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
> Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/>
> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/>
> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
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From: "R&P Betz" <betzmaps@earthlink.net>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] Reference Book on Placenames
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:30:26 -0500
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<x-html>
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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Dear MapHisters,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Can someone recommend a good reference&nbsp;book that identifies&nbsp;changes in place-names on maps, particularly those of the 1400s to 1700?&nbsp; </FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Specifically, I am trying to locate a reference that will assist me to identify changes in coastal and interior place-names on the continent of Africa.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I am very slowly compiling my own list of place-names but would appreciate seeing what else is available.&nbsp; For example,&nbsp;&nbsp;Maabase to Mombassa,&nbsp; 'Rio de Infante' to supposedly 'The Great Fish River', and so forth.&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Thank you.&nbsp;&nbsp; Richard L. 
Betz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><A 
href="mailto:betzmaps@earthlink.net">betzmaps@earthlink.net</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:50:55 -0600
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Barbara McCorkle <bmccork@ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Baldwyn
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Henk:  I've found the Baldwyn volume at the following locations:  Royal Geographical Society, 523F [1791]; Library of Congress, Rare Book Room, G114.B19;  Yale University Library, EEa 794b; the ESTC (Eighteenth Century Short Title Catalogue) lists it also in Canada at CaBVaU, shelf number G114.B19.  I'm not sure which Canadian library that is since I am at home and do not have access to the NUC library lists.  I have not seen that volume, but I have examined the others.  I have noted that the maps contained in the copies I have seen vary.
    Barbara

At 01:45 PM 2/13/02 +0100, you wrote:
>To all
>Who will be so kind to oblige me with location and shelfnumber of this atlas
>:
> G. A. Baldwyn, 'A new royal authentic complete and universal system of
>geographhy [. . .] - London, 1794
>h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl
>H.A.M. van der Heijden
>Lange Reen 2
>5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
>0497- 514637
>
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From: "Roger Baskes" <roger@baskes.com>
To: "Jan Smits" <jan.smits@kb.nl>, <dholeman1@home.com>, <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: Re: Betr.: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the SteilerHandatlas
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:08:20 -0600
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Dear Jan,  I must have heard that you were doing this project on the Petermann maps, since you obviously have been working on it for quite some time.  But as I only now am fully aware of it, I wanted to tell you how useful it will be.  These maps are of such great importance, containing geographical and historical information which is unique to them.  So congratulations on finishing this-- and congratulations once again to the extraordinary Utrecht/Explokart group.  I especially appreciate their valuing the study of maps which are not in "atlases" proper-- witness their great new Guicciardini cartobibliography.  Best wishes,  Roger

Roger S Baskes
980 N Michigan Avenue
Suite 1380
Chicago, IL 60611 USA
phone +1-312-642-3737
fax +1-312-642-0937
roger@baskes.com
http://www.baskes.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Smits" <Jan.Smits@kb.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>; <dholeman1@home.com> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:00 AM Subject: Betr.: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the SteilerHandatlas


> Dear Don,
>
> I have written an 45,000-word essay in the framework of a to-be-published bibliography of maps in Petermann's Geographische Mitteilungen (PGM) 1855-1945. In first instance the biliography will be published in the series "Utrechts Historisch-Kartografische
> Studies = Utrecht Studies in Map History" of Explocart at Utrecht University (see: http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/explokart/index.html chapter 10).The essay is now under review with Mathew Edney. At the moment the planning is that it will be published this year, but may take a bit longer as the manuscript is now 1,000+ pages!
>
> As the maps in PGM were closely related to, in first instance, the Stieler Handatlases and other products of the Perthes Publishing House in Gotha I have tried to show the development of all these products in relation with each other against the context of developments in cartography, geography and social/economic/political developments, with a heavy focus on the 19th century. Of course a large part of the text is devoted to persons involved with all these developments (Stieler, Heinrich and Hermann Berghaus, Stu[e]lpnagel, Petermann, Vogel, Hassenstein, Hermann Wagner, Supan, Haack to name but a few.). And I have used Espendorf to look for certain chronologies and derivatives of the Stieler Handatlases.
>
> I can give you some information privately or you have to wait till the publication materializes.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Jan Smits
>
>
> Jan Smits
> Koninklijke Bibliotheek, National Library of The Netherlands
> P.O. Box 90.407
> NL-2509 LK Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> tel: +31 70 3140241
> fax: +31 70 3140450
> E-mail: jan.smits@kb.nl
> E-mail: skd@python.kb.nl (when the above does not function)
>
> President Groupe des Cartothecaires de LIBER (GdC, European Map Curators Group)
> Chairman Working Group for Mapcuratorship, Dutch Cartographic Society (NVK)
> IFLA Representative for the ICA Spatial Data Standards Commission
> Secretary Dutch Commision for Cataloguing & Indexing FOBID (Federation of Organizations working in the Library-, Information-, and Documentation-field)
> WWW-maps: http://www.kb.nl/kb/skd/karto-en.html
> WWW-GdC: http://www.kb.nl/infolev/liber/intro.htm
> WWW-personal: http://www.kb.nl/persons/jan-smits/homepage.htm
>
> Na matheis kai na matheis ap'tous spoudasmenous
> (To learn and again to learn from those who know)
>
>
> >>> dholeman1@home.com 13-02-02 18:50 >>>
> I am hoping that readers can help me to learn the history of the Steiler
> Handatlas, and point me to resources that will help me in this regard. I am
> particularly intertested in its origins and in any successors, and also
> details of the resident cartographers in the period ranging the turn of the
> nineteenth to twentieth centuries.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Don Holeman
>
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:22:11 -0800
From: Chris Hermansen <clh@TIMBERLINE.CA>
Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
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To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: Re : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and 
 ZodiacalSigns
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Jean-Pierre MARTIN wrote:

> So my "prime meridian" deduction was only coming from the fact that the
> zodiac ecliptic is cutting the terrestrial equator at a place which is the
> middle of a spindle centered on the approximate Greenwich location, and the
> balance for the ecliptic.
> 
> So my question yet remains analog in terms: why this connection? or are we
> obliged to say that it is a coincidence?
> 
> In my view this point  has sufficient great cosmological significance for
> not being simple drawing hazard. But I am not a scholar and I may find
> connections where there is not.

Jean-Pierre, did you not indicate the equator and equinox crossed in Aries?
Because the vernal equinox hasn't been in Aries for quite a long time...
-- 
Regards,

Chris Hermansen  ·  Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue  ·  Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca  ·  Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca  ·  FAX: +1 604 733 0634

C'est ma façon de parler.
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:24:58 +0000
From: Doug Weller <dweller@ramtops.demon.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map
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While on the topic of the Desliens maps, I am frequently being told that they show pre-Columbian Norse settlements in North America, the evidence being flags in various places, eg Labrador.  I've pointed out that there are European flags in some other very improbably places, but to no avail. Does anyone have any comments on this that could help me?

Thanks.

Doug


-- 
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated  Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org  Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk  Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

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From: "Charles Burroughs" <stepladr@EROLS.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: RE: Re : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:38:23 -0500
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Dear Jean-Pierre,

     Thank you for starting all this dialogue about the Behaim globe.  As I indicated on my earlier response to "The List," I have found the responses to your query quite fascinating and just could not resist providing that quote from Britannica (1929).  Found john Fazli's response to my speculation about the PM to be very interesting (the Canaries, then?).  Any further comment on that?

Charles @ Stepladder Books

P.S.  Found Peter's references to the equator, tropic & polar circles as "celestial" to be rather puzzling since we are clearly talking about a terrestrial globe!

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]  On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre MARTIN
Sent:	Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:33 AM To:	maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject:	Re : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs

I apologize for not seeing the graduations of the terrestrial equator which are not readable on the image available to me, in a book on historical cartography. Besides it shows only a part of the globe. So I could'not verify what origin was given to longitudes or make any deductions concerning the graduations visible on the equator.

After looking the map again (developped one, not globe), the only readable reference concerns the letters D above the spindles for the Greenwich meridian" which could mean that the A was the origin so origin spindle could be 90° east greenwich or meridian 105° west as you mention, but this seems to me not significant and quite stunning (approximately mexican meridian).

So my "prime meridian" deduction was only coming from the fact that the zodiac ecliptic is cutting the terrestrial equator at a place which is the middle of a spindle centered on the approximate Greenwich location, and the balance for the ecliptic.

So my question yet remains analog in terms: why this connection? or are we obliged to say that it is a coincidence?

In my view this point  has sufficient great cosmological significance for not being simple drawing hazard. But I am not a scholar and I may find connections where there is not.

With my thanks for your search.


Jean-Pierre MARTIN



----------
>De : Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
>À : maphist@geog.UU.NL
>Objet : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and Zodiacal Signs
>Date : Mer 13 fév 2002 20:48
>

> Jean-Pierre Martin, and list,
>
> Continuing on the query for the Prime Meridian on Martin Behaim's globe.
> Finally I found the time to consult my copy of Focus Behaim Globus.
>  From the illustrations it is clear that the Prime Meridian does not run
> through Greenwich or London, not even through the British Isles, but in the
> center of the Atlantic Ocean, about 15 degrees east of Japan and 75 degrees
> west of Cape Verde. I can't find a specific reference, but it seems
> according the Ptolemean tradition. This agrees with the essay by Ulrich
> Knefelkamp, Der Behaim Globus und die Kartographie seiner Zeit, in which it
> is made clear that Behaim's source was, int.al., the Ulm edition of
> Ptolemy's Geographia and the world map by Henricus Martellus (c. 1489).
>
> On the globe only a few celestial circles are drawn: the equator, tropics
> and polar circles, the ecliptic (with the signs of the zodiac), and further
> the prime meridian.
>
> To come back on Jean-Pierre's question: as far as I know the ecliptic has
> always the zodiacal signs, since that is the basis of the division of the
> eclipic in degrees. In most cases only the symbols are used (check several
> illustrations in my Globi Neerlandici, int.al. p. 538, Janssonius's
> terrestrial gores, 1621; p. 560, terrestrial globe by Valk, 1700 -
> illustration of title, zodiacal signs left and right of the text). On
> Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is
> indeed exceptional.
>
> Peter
>
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:55:04 -0800
From: Chris Hermansen <clh@TIMBERLINE.CA>
Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
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Sorry, I know it's really bad form to respond to one's own message, but I need to correct a minor error: I meant "the equator and the ecliptic", not "the equator and the equinox".

Chris Hermansen wrote:

> Jean-Pierre, did you not indicate the equator and equinox crossed in
> Aries?
> Because the vernal equinox hasn't been in Aries for quite a long time...

-- 
Regards,

Chris Hermansen  ·  Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue  ·  Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca  ·  Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca  ·  FAX: +1 604 733 0634

C'est ma façon de parler.
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From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@NETREACH.NET>
To: <MapHist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] THE NAUTICAL CHART 
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:05:40 -0200
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Let me add my voice to those urging those on the list to read&nbsp;&nbsp;THE NAUTICAL CHART by Arturo Perez-Reverte.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm only half-way through, but it is a fine read in the English translation by Margaret Peden.&nbsp; This is a book not just for historians of cartography and curators of older maps, but for all map folk of whatever ilk.&nbsp; Oh, yes, general readers will find it interesting as well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If "they" could make a movie out half of one of Perez-Reverte's other novels, THE CLUB DUMA (made into "The Ninth Gate"), this is a natural for cinematic depiction as well.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J. 
B. Post</FONT></DIV>
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:33:52 +0100
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From: List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map
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Non-member submission from [Paul Seaver <seaver@stanford.edu>]

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:16:43 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Paul Seaver <seaver@stanford.edu> Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map

Dear Doug Weller,

The 1541 map by the Dieppe cartographer Nicolas Desliens indicates several instances of European presence on the North American continent -- it shows Jacques Cartier's discoveries in the St.
Lawrence region, and the stretch between Cape Breton and Florida (here called La Nouvelle Terre Franceze) takes its flavor from Verrazzano, Ribeiro and Gomes.

If the people who tell you that Desliens shows "pre-Columbian Norse settlements in North America" have actually looked at his 1541 map, they would have taken their point of departure in the name A noranbegue accompanying a very deep inlet somewhat north of Cape Cod.

Around 1570, Ortelius expressed his belief that the Land of Norumbega -- which at that time had become a much sought-after, but peculiarly evanescent piece of American real-estate -- was named for the medieval Norse who had settled it.  (They had presumably worked their way down from "Vinland" of saga fame ...)

Although a cartographical and textual growth industry for a long time (whose history I traced in an article for IMAGO MUNDI 50), Norumbega was a never-never-land and is now recognized as such by everyone except those who want to believe -- against all scholarly evidence -- in a pervasive and continuous medieval Norse presence on the American Continent.  Part of the cartographical evidence they use is Hans Poulson Resen's 1605 map, which of course also indicates Norumbega.
The trouble is that Resen was simply chasing the same will-o'-the-wisp!

Kirsten A. Seaver



 >While on the topic of the Desliens maps, I am frequently being told  >that, the
 >evidence being flags in various places, eg Labrador.  I've pointed out  >that there are European flags in some other very improbably places,  >but to no avail. Does anyone have any comments on this that could help  >me?
 >
 >Thanks.
 >
 >Doug
 >
 >
 >--
 > Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated  > Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org  > Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk  > Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details  >
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 >unsubscribe maphist <email>
 >where <email> is replaced by your email address.



Peter van der Krogt
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From: "michael zalar" <m_zalar@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:10:36 
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I believe that the discussion mentioned by Mr Weller dealt more with Labrador, which appears to be under a Norse flag on the Desliens map, than about Norumbega.  Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the map that I can examine in depth, and have merely an on-line version.

Michael


>
>Non-member submission from [Paul Seaver <seaver@stanford.edu>]
>
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:16:43 -0800
>To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>From: Paul Seaver <seaver@stanford.edu>
>Subject: Re: [MapHist] Desliens 1541 World Map
>
>Dear Doug Weller,
>
>The 1541 map by the Dieppe cartographer Nicolas Desliens indicates
>several instances of European presence on the North American
>continent -- it shows Jacques Cartier's discoveries in the St.
>Lawrence region, and the stretch between Cape Breton and Florida
>(here called La Nouvelle Terre Franceze) takes its flavor from
>Verrazzano, Ribeiro and Gomes.
>
>If the people who tell you that Desliens shows "pre-Columbian Norse
>settlements in North America" have actually looked at his 1541 map,
>they would have taken their point of departure in the name A
>noranbegue accompanying a very deep inlet somewhat north of Cape Cod.
>
>Around 1570, Ortelius expressed his belief that the Land of Norumbega
>-- which at that time had become a much sought-after, but peculiarly
>evanescent piece of American real-estate -- was named for the
>medieval Norse who had settled it.  (They had presumably worked their
>way down from "Vinland" of saga fame ...)
>
>Although a cartographical and textual growth industry for a long time
>(whose history I traced in an article for IMAGO MUNDI 50), Norumbega
>was a never-never-land and is now recognized as such by everyone
>except those who want to believe -- against all scholarly evidence --
>in a pervasive and continuous medieval Norse presence on the American
>Continent.  Part of the cartographical evidence they use is Hans
>Poulson Resen's 1605 map, which of course also indicates Norumbega.
>The trouble is that Resen was simply chasing the same
>will-o'-the-wisp!
>
>Kirsten A. Seaver
>
>
>
> >While on the topic of the Desliens maps, I am frequently being told
> >that, the
> >evidence being flags in various places, eg Labrador.  I've pointed out
> >that there are European flags in some other very improbably places,
> >but to no avail. Does anyone have any comments on this that could help
> >me?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Doug
> >
> >
> >--
> > Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> > Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org
> > Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> > Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
>-
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> >unsubscribe maphist <email>
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>
>
>
>Peter van der Krogt
>List-owner MapHist
>
>List-info: http://www.maphist.nl
>
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From: "henk van der heijden" <h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] VII Provinces
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:35:51 +0100
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dear Maphisters
does anybody know the origin (atlas/book) of a map THE | SEVEN UNITED | PROVINCES {LONDON] : Mutlow Sc. Russell Court, 17,5x21,5 cm ?
and
a copy of the map C. Bowles new pocket map of  the Seven United Provinces, London, [1794], 46,7x60,2 ; see catalogue Douma 1981, nr 916 ?
Henk van der Heijden
H.A.M. van der Heijden
Lange Reen 2
5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
0497- 514637


H.A.M. van der Heijden
Lange Reen 2
5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
0497- 514637

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Hallo!

I'm from Romania. A have a Master Degree in History, Medieval History.
I was wondering if anyone would have any information about Postgreduate degrees in the History of Cartography? (Fellowships in Cartography).

Thank You,
Irina Pavelet

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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 18:30:49 +0100
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From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Re message by Irina Pavelet
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Non-member submission from ["Andropov" <b.meijer@andropov.com>]

From: "Andropov" <b.meijer@andropov.com> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE:
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:49:25 +0100

Dear Ms. Pavelet,

If you have a look at on the site of Nuffic (http://www.nuffic.nl/) they may offer possibilities of such a study in the Netherlands.

Boudewijn Meijer



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]Namens Irina Hoinarescu
Verzonden: zaterdag 16 februari 2002 10:00 Aan: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Onderwerp:


Hallo!

I'm from Romania. A have a Master Degree in History, Medieval History.
I was wondering if anyone would have any information about Postgreduate degrees in the History of Cartography? (Fellowships in Cartography).

Thank You,
Irina Pavelet

_________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

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<x-flowed>
List,

We just got all messages of the last few days for the second time because postmaster@veriomail.com has sent his error message - that <wavauc@clark.net> has his or her user quota exceeded - not to the "sender" of the message (<owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl>, that's me), but to the "reply" address (<maphist@geog.uu.nml>, that's you, the list). Moreover, he used the original "From" field, thus majordomo let these messages through.
I sent this message also to this postmaster, so that (s)he hopefully changes this configuration. Further I unsubscribed <wavauc@clark.net>



Peter van der Krogt
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From: "John Fazli" <jfazli@IX.NETCOM.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Subject: [MapHist] Siege of Hulst
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:02:33 -0500
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I've come across a map entitled "La Siege de Hulst per son Altese la Prince d'Orangie 1645".  Same title repeated in Dutch below, 56 x 44 cm.  Birds eye view with many ships in harbors and all the troop positions and cavalry drawn individually.  Latin text on verso "Obsidio Hulstae".

Just as a guess maybe published by Blaeu?   But that is only a guess; I can't find anything about this one in my library and even Google is stumped.
Any help most appreciated.

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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:47:13 -0500
From: Overlee Farm Books <overlee@BCN.NET>
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Subject: [MapHist] Updated New York City Atlas
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The New York Times Arts & Leisure section today, February 17, contains an article by Philip Nobel about the new updated Five Borough Atlas of New York by the Hagstrom Map Company, the first complete overhaul in sixty years.  Two colored versions of the map of Prospect Park in Brooklyn, one from 1998 and one from the new atlas, illustrate the article.  Martin Torodash

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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:03:24 +0100
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Siege of Hulst
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<x-flowed>
Blaeu's map - used in the town book of the Netherlands - has this title, but is also signed "IB Excudit" (in the lower right corner, just left of the scale bar).

LA SIEGE DE | HULST | Per Son Altesse la Prince | d'Orangie | 1645. = DE BELEGERINGE VAN DE STADT HULST, | door Syn Hoogheyt den Prince van Orangien | int Iaer 1645 / Getekent ende mete de ketting gemeten door Iohan van Duynen Ingenieur, ende geadmiteert Landtmeeter by de H. State van Zelandt. 
- IB Excudit. - Scalebar: Schale van 300 Rhynlantsche Roeden = 7.3 cm. - 43.5 x 56 cm.

However: this is not a bird's eye view, but a map, showing the fortifications of the town of Hulst, the positions of the troops around it and many ships in the rivers east and west of the town.
See illustration, except of course in the town book, in The Atlas Blaeu-Van der Hem of the Austrian National Library, vol. II ('t Goy-Houten 1999), no. 
14:56.

Peter

At 18:02 17-2-2002, you wrote:
>I've come across a map entitled "La Siege de Hulst per son Altese la Prince
>d'Orangie 1645".  Same title repeated in Dutch below, 56 x 44 cm.  Birds eye
>view with many ships in harbors and all the troop positions and cavalry
>drawn individually.  Latin text on verso "Obsidio Hulstae".
>
>Just as a guess maybe published by Blaeu?   But that is only a guess; I
>can't find anything about this one in my library and even Google is stumped.
>Any help most appreciated.
>
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YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Siege of Hulst
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:35:39 -0500
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That's the one - thanks.  I feel silly for missing the "IB Excudit" but at least my guess was right.  I would still call it something of a cross between a pure map and a birds eye view, however.  There is some definitely some use of perspective, although it is limited.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.UU.NL>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Siege of Hulst


> Blaeu's map - used in the town book of the Netherlands - has this title,
> but is also signed "IB Excudit" (in the lower right corner, just left of
> the scale bar).
>
> LA SIEGE DE | HULST | Per Son Altesse la Prince | d'Orangie | 1645. = DE
> BELEGERINGE VAN DE STADT HULST, | door Syn Hoogheyt den Prince van Orangien
> | int Iaer 1645 / Getekent ende mete de ketting gemeten door Iohan van
> Duynen Ingenieur, ende geadmiteert Landtmeeter by de H. State van Zelandt.
> - IB Excudit. - Scalebar: Schale van 300 Rhynlantsche Roeden = 7.3 cm. -
> 43.5 x 56 cm.
>
> However: this is not a bird's eye view, but a map, showing the
> fortifications of the town of Hulst, the positions of the troops around it
> and many ships in the rivers east and west of the town.
> See illustration, except of course in the town book, in The Atlas Blaeu-Van
> der Hem of the Austrian National Library, vol. II ('t Goy-Houten 1999), no.
> 14:56.
>
> Peter
>
> At 18:02 17-2-2002, you wrote:
> >I've come across a map entitled "La Siege de Hulst per son Altese la Prince
> >d'Orangie 1645".  Same title repeated in Dutch below, 56 x 44 cm.  Birds eye
> >view with many ships in harbors and all the troop positions and cavalry
> >drawn individually.  Latin text on verso "Obsidio Hulstae".
> >
> >Just as a guess maybe published by Blaeu?   But that is only a guess; I
> >can't find anything about this one in my library and even Google is stumped.
> >Any help most appreciated.
> >
>
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>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
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> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/>
> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
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<x-flowed>
List,

Those subscribers who want to sub-scribe to the digest form of MapHist - that is, that you get once a day one large e-mail with all the postings of that day combined - please be patient. The faculty's IT department is so overloaded with teaching work, that it will take until late next week to configure the digest list.

Those who want to be subscribed to the digest form, please send me a message OFF-LIST (to: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl). Then you can eventually un-subscribe the "normal" list in case you have trouble in receiving messages all separately.

At the end of the month I will set up manually an archive, so you can download a text-file of all postings. (as soon as the digest form is installed, I will see of automatic archives are possible with majordomo).

Sorry for the delay

Btw, the MapHist archives 1994-2001 in searchable PDF-format on CD rom is now available. See http://www.maphist.nl and choose for MapHist cd-rom in the menu.

Peter




Peter van der Krogt
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From: Batavier1@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:20:04 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Siege of Hulst
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If published by Blaeu the battle map would have the Blaeu watermark.  I would suggest you check that first
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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:06:41 -0800
From: Chris Hermansen <clh@TIMBERLINE.CA>
Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
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To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re : [MapHist] Martin Behaim's globe - Prime Meridian and ZodiacalSigns
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Jean-Pierre MARTIN wrote:

> So my "prime meridian" deduction was only coming from the fact that the
> zodiac ecliptic is cutting the terrestrial equator at a place which is the
> middle of a spindle centered on the approximate Greenwich location, and the
> balance for the ecliptic.
> 
> So my question yet remains analog in terms: why this connection? or are we
> obliged to say that it is a coincidence?
> 
> In my view this point  has sufficient great cosmological significance for
> not being simple drawing hazard. But I am not a scholar and I may find
> connections where there is not.

"Despite its faintness, Aries has assumed great importance
  in astronomy because, over 2000 years ago, it contained the
  point where the Sun passes from south to north across the
  celestial equator each year.  This point, the vernal
  equinox, marked the start of the northern hemisphere spring,
  and from it the celestial coordinate known as right
  ascension is measured; this point is also known as the first
  point of Aries, although it no longer lies in Aries, having
  moved into neigbouring Pisces as a result of the slight
  wobble of Earth in space known as precession."
  - Collins Pocket Guide Stars & Planets, 3rd edition,
    Ian Ridpath and Wil Tirion, 2000, Harper Collins

If Behaim had got the crossing point of the equator and ecliptic in the correct constellation, we might be able to believe that he portrayed the exact point of intersection of the ecliptic and equator on the surface of the globe.
My guess is that his chosen point is just artistic license.

-- 
Regards,

Chris Hermansen  ·  Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue  ·  Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca  ·  Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca  ·  FAX: +1 604 733 0634

C'est ma façon de parler.
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From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG
Subject: [MapHist] CFP: Poetic Cartographies
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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mapsters, fyi, Alice H.

see message below...


Alice C. Hudson
Chief, Map Division
The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library
5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117
New York, NY 10018-2788

ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 ----- Forwarded by ahudson/MHT/Nypl on 02/19/2002 03:22 PM -----
                                                                                            
                    Raymond                                                                 
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                    <familusi@msu.       cc:                                                
                    edu>                 Subject:     CFP: Poetic Cartographies             
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From: From: H-Net Announce <announce@mail.h-net.msu.edu> Subject: CFP: Poetic Cartographies
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002

Poetic Cartographies: Tracing the Geopoetic and the Geopolitical in Contemporary American Poetry

Proposed Special Session
MLA 2002
December 27-30, New York City

Papers are invited for a proposed special session at MLA 2002 in New York entitled, "Poetic Cartographies: Tracing the Geopoetic and the Geopolitical in Contemporary American Poetry."

Following Graham Huggan's argument that "maps are neither copies nor semblances of reality but modes of discourse which reflect and articulate the ideologies of their makers," this panel seeks to investigate intersections between poetic cartographies and their corresponding geopolitical claims. The insistence of simulated landscapes in contemporary American verse points up questions of the relationship between space and its reproducible image. The panel will explore linkages between the poetics and politics of space, invoking contemporary poetic mappings in order to test the status of the "postmodern" landscape as a place beyond "geographical monumentality," a nexus of placelessness, overrun by "the rising hegemony of standardized, undifferentiated spaces, areas depleted of history, drained of the possibility for relations, identity, narrative and significant social action" (Brian Jarvis, _Postmodern Cartographies_).

Please send brief c.v. and 1-2 page abstracts by March 15 to Daniel Turner by address or via email. Participants must be members of MLA by April 1, 2002.

Daniel Turner
Department of English
Vanderbilt University
Nashville, TN 37235
Email: daniel.c.turner@vanderbilt.edu



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From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@NETREACH.NET>
To: <MapHist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Map sale 
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:12:35 -0200
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; A card arrived in the mail informing me that the Artful Framer and Westside Gallery (32 W. Lancaster Ave., Paoli, PA 19301, 610/644-3131) is having a map sale from 21 February to 26 February 2002.&nbsp; From the card, I think most items will be maps sundered from 1873 and 1883 Chester County atlases with a few reproductions thrown in.&nbsp; Reception to start things off will be 1700 hrs. to 2030 hrs. on Thursday.&nbsp; I hope to attend and, if anything unusual shows up, will report on the event.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J. B. 
Post</FONT></DIV>
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From: "Ed Dahl" <edahl@iosphere.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map sale 
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:53:23 -0500
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On the MapTrade list, I trust, since that's the list for such commercial matters.

This is MapHist, short for map history.

Ed Dahl

----- Original Message -----
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@NETREACH.NET> To: <MapHist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:12 PM Subject: [MapHist] Map sale


   A card arrived in the mail informing me that the Artful Framer and Westside Gallery (32 W. Lancaster Ave., Paoli, PA 19301, 610/644-3131) is having a map sale from 21 February to 26 February 2002.  From the card, I think most items will be maps sundered from 1873 and 1883 Chester County atlases with a few reproductions thrown in.  Reception to start things off will be 1700 hrs. to 2030 hrs. on Thursday.  I hope to attend and, if anything unusual shows up, will report on the event.

          J. B. Post



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:15:43 -0900
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Dee Longenbaugh <deelong@ALASKA.COM>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map sale
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<x-flowed>
>I think this comes well within the purview of our group. J. B. isn't 
>selling anything himself; he is simply notifying those in the area 
>who might want to attend, and offers to report if something of 
>interest to the group results.
	I look forward to reading about any unusual maps or, since J. 
B. began the genre, any cartifacts that turn up.
	Dee

>
>    A card arrived in the mail informing me that the Artful Framer and Westside
>Gallery (32 W. Lancaster Ave., Paoli, PA 19301, 610/644-3131) is having a map
>sale from 21 February to 26 February 2002.  From the card, I think most items
>will be maps sundered from 1873 and 1883 Chester County atlases with a few
>reproductions thrown in.  Reception to start things off will be 1700 hrs. to
>2030 hrs. on Thursday.  I hope to attend and, if anything unusual 
>shows up, will
>report on the event.
>
>           J. B. Post
>
>
>
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-- 
The Observatory, ABAA
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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:21:44 -0800
Subject: [MapHist] The John Snow map/cholera story
From: "Penny L. Richards" <turley2@earthlink.net>
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The message below was posted to H-Sci-Med-Tech; I thought it was worth x-posting to maphist since it deals with one of cart history's most repeated tales...Penny Richards

From: "Kari McLeod" <kari.mcleod@yale.edu> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: Re: QUERY: Urban Legends in HSMT


As a way of connecting two of the current threads on the list, one of the most
popular myths in introductory history of medicine courses is that of John Snow
and the 1854 Broad Street cholera outbreak in London. The story is also popular
in classes related to public health and epidemiology, cartography, and geography--particularly medical geography.

One version of the story is that in 1854, over 500 people died of cholera in 10
days in Soho, London. Dr. John Snow, a pioneer epidemiologist and anaesthetist,
drew a dot map showing the location of deaths and realized the the deaths clustered around the Broad Street pump. On September 7, the local Board of Guardians held an emergency meeting about the epidemic. Snow convinced them to remove the handle from the pump. They did that the next day, and the epidemic ended. Snow's further investigation showed that a couple of individuals
who did not live in the neighbourhood, but who drank that pump's water, died of
cholera.

Variations of the story have Snow removing the handle himself, more people dying, more or fewer days, and some do not mention a map.

I've written some of the clarificiations to the story below, but the importance
of this story (at least to me) is how different disciplinary accounts focus on
different aspects of the story. Most of the "textbook" accounts say that the removal of the handle ended the outbreak. For most accounts the theme of the story is that careful research and a solid argument made to the right people can
lead to effective policy decisions. Cartographers and geographers focus on the
role of the map. Public health and epidemiological accounts tell the Broad Street story alongside Snow's work in the South London Districts. It was that
investigation which earned him the title "father of shoe-leather epidemiology."
The stories in history of medicine often portray Snow as a dual pioneer (epidemiology and and anaesthesia) and note that he administered chloroform to
Queen Victoria during her last two confinements.

Historical investigation shows that Snow did not use the map to determine that
the pump was the source: it was drawn as an illustration after the fact, probably at the encouragement of William Farr. Snow had published his theory that cholera was transmitted through contaminated drinking water in 1849, so the
water supply was the first place he looked. The Board of Guardians did remove
the pump, but the outbreak had already begun to subside--a fact acknowledged by
Snow in his 1855 _On the Mode of Communication of Cholera_. It is possible that
the handle's removal prevented a second outbreak.

We do not know what Snow said to the Board of Guardians. Those of us who have
done research on Snow and the Broad Street outbreak have gone through the minutes (and draft minutes) of the Board, but the minutes for that emergency meeting are not to be found.

Sincerely,
Kari McLeod


Kari McLeod
Ph.D. student, History of Medicine
Graduate Fellow, Jonathan Edwards College Yale University
email: kari.mcleod@yale.edu

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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:28:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Inquiry regarding the history of the Steiler (= Stieler) Handatl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Cc: gcrossma@cais.com
From: "George R. Crossman" <gcrossma@CAPACCESS.ORG>
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It's great to be reminded of how optimistic we were about getting the new book on German handatlases into print. It is still underway, but not quite done yet. Juergen and I are hopeful that it will be available by the end of the year. I will post a notice when it finally appears. The principal reason that it has taken so long is that much new material has been discovered, and what originallly began as a simple translation of the German text in his 1995 book has expanded considerably. But it will definitely be completed in the near future. I think it will be a valuable resource for people interested in that period.

George Crossman

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From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@NETREACH.NET>
To: <MapHist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] A map gallery opening / "Meta-cartographic" additions to maps
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:47:17 -0200
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Sorry, Ed, but I will make some comments about the map opening followed by some observations on a totally unrelated matter.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The site was the Artful Framer &amp; Westside Gallery and some of the maps were matted maps untimely ripped from county atlases were those they had on hand, but David Mackey (<A href="http://www.dmacatk.com">http://www.dmacatk.com</A></FONT>) had some on display as well.&nbsp; Mackey, a fairly new dealer, knew about the Bonnington Map Fair and the David Rumsey site, but not about &lt;maptrade&gt; nor &lt;MapHist&gt;.&nbsp; He has been enlightened.&nbsp; He also sells facsimiles of some of these maps as well as a reproduction of the Battle of Paoli/Paoli Massacre map.&nbsp; Some of the matted plates from county atlases had the page tabs attached, the first time I saw that.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; None of these maps had added writing on them, but I have seen some which must have been from insurance offices, realtors, or planning agencies with additional information added by hand on the maps.&nbsp; Usually one finds these for sale in establishments where maps are decidedly peripheral.&nbsp; I can see needing to address corrections made on nautical charts whether intended for correcting later editions or just for personal use, but when the information concerns insurance policy numbers, assessed valuation of the land, and changed owners in what may be a unique addition to a particular copy, the matter doesn't seem as clear.&nbsp; Certainly this is useful information to someone, but dealing with it raises problems.&nbsp; The same problem happens in the book world with signed copies with copies signed by the author, copies signed by the author and artist illustrating the volume, and still other copies signed by the author, the artist, the publisher, and the publisher's mistress.&nbsp; And in modern times, we have automobile clubs drawing routes on maps.&nbsp; This I can see, but policy numbers?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J. B. 
Post</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "George S. Carhart" <gcarhart@usm.maine.edu>
Organization: University of Southern Maine
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:37:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [MapHist] A map gallery opening / "Meta-cartographic" additions to maps
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	I am a little surprised at this question. After all what better way of keeping track of the properties that one is underwriting. I can easily see how this would help an insurance broker, the house that I own here in Portland is the first house on the left side of Lafayette St. but it is number 7 not number 1 nor is there a # 9, 11, or 13, or for that matter a #2, 4, or 6. Even more complex is locating properties on local roads that may have more than one name or a name that differs depending upon which end (town) you started from, e.g. town one Gardiner calls the road the Lichfield road and Lichfield calls it the Gardiner road. Add to this the problem that houses both in towns and in rural town ships often do not have posted numbers, and you have a confusing problem of identification. So having a map with the policy numbers by the properties would be an excellent concept. We should also not forget that the Sanborn Map Co. was a map company that made maps specifically for insurance underwriters. Some examples of these maps can be found with policy numbers written in. 

If I have misunderstood the question I apologize. But it certainly sound like you were questioning the sense in writing the policy numbers beside the properties on a map.

George

On 21 Feb 2002, at 20:47, J.B. Post <maphist@geog.uu.nl> wrote:

 Sorry, Ed, but I will make some comments about the map opening followed by some observations on a totally unrelated matter. 

 The site was the Artful Framer & Westside Gallery and some of the maps were matted maps untimely ripped from county atlases were those they had on hand, but David Mackey (http://www.dmacatk.com) had some on display as well. Mackey, a fairly new dealer, knew about the Bonnington Map Fair and the David Rumsey site, but not about <maptrade> nor <MapHist>. He has been enlightened. He also sells facsimiles of some of these maps as well as a reproduction of the Battle of Paoli/Paoli Massacre map. Some of the matted plates from county atlases had the page tabs attached, the first time I saw that.

 None of these maps had added writing on them, but I have seen some which must have been from insurance offices, realtors, or planning agencies with additional information added by hand on the maps. Usually one finds these for sale in establishments where maps are decidedly peripheral. I can see needing to address corrections made on nautical charts whether intended for correcting later editions or just for personal use, but when the information concerns insurance policy numbers, assessed valuation of the land, and changed owners in what may be a unique addition to a particular copy, the matter doesn't seem as clear. Certainly this is useful information to someone, but dealing with it raises problems. The same problem happens in the book world with signed copies with copies signed by the author, copies signed by the author and artist illustrating the volume, and still other copies signed by the author, the artist, the publisher, and the publisher's mistress. And in modern times, we have automobile clubs drawing routes on maps. This I can see, but policy numbers?

 J. B. Post

George S. Carhart
Cartographic Associate
Osher Map Library
Smith Center for Cartographic Education University of Southern Maine
P.O. Box 9301
Portland, Maine 04104-9301
USA
(207) 780-4910
gcarhart@usm.maine.edu
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<x-flowed>
Dear all,

I realize that in responding to our Stanford server's urgent warning this morning about a virus, I used MapHist rather than Sivert Fløttum's private e-mail to reply.  (In order to avoid further trouble, I had gone up to the very first Fløttum entry in my files.)

I herewith translate the message into English:

Dear Sivert Fløttum,

Our server here ha has just warned that what you sent me just now with the title Firhetsstatuen kaster mørker skygger" [The Statue of Liberty casts dark shadows]  contains a undoubted virus and has therefore been removed.

I trust that you did not send me this on purpose and therefore wanted to tell you about it, in case you are not aware of the danger here yourself.

Regards,
Kirsten A. Seaver


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From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] The John Snow map/cholera story
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Non-member submission from ["Duane F. Marble" <marble.1@osu.edu>]

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:02:26 -0500
From: "Duane F. Marble" <marble.1@osu.edu> Subject: Re: [MapHist] The John Snow map/cholera story

The following two citations are from a bibliography I have constructed on Geographic
Information Science & Technology as applied to public health and disease:

McLeod, K. S. (1998). Melting Snow: A Re-examination of Dr. John Snow, His Dot-map and the 1854
Broad Street Cholera Outbreak, Carleton University (Canada): 189. (thesis)
  The mythical story of John Snow and the Broad Street outbreak is common in medical geography,
epidemiology, and the history of medicine. In 1854, Snow identified the source of the cholera
outbreak in Golden Square (in present-day Soho) as the Broad Street pump, possibly with a dot-map of
cholera deaths, and successfully argued for the removal of the pump's handle. Many accounts state
that this action ended the outbreak. In all three disciplines, Snow is presented as a hero because
he showed how cholera is transmitted, because his ideas affected public health policy, and because
he provided definitive proof of a hypothesis. For medical geography, Snow's heroic reputation is
related to his determinative use of a dot-map, and many authors feature the map in their
presentations of the story. However, the twentieth- century versions of this map can be quite
different from one another. This thesis re-examines the myth of John Snow, his dot-map, and the 1854
Broad Street outbreak-- informed by archival research--and challenges the taken- for-granted
repetition of the story in the three disciplines. The process of retelling the story encourages
future investigation of the meaning of the myth in disciplinary contexts; of the nature of proof of
causation; and of how evidence, argument and authority work in science.

McLeod, K. S. (2000). "Our sense of Snow: the myth of John Snow in medical geography." Social
Science & Medicine 50(7-8): 923-935.
  In 1854, Dr. John Snow identified the Broad Street pump as the source of an intense cholera
outbreak by plotting the location of cholera deaths on a dot-map. He had the pump handle removed and
the outbreak ended&hellip;or so one version of the story goes. In medical geography, the story of
Snow and the Broad Street cholera outbreak is a common example of the discipline in action. While
authors in other health-related disciplines focus on Snow's &ldquo;shoe-leather epidemiology&rdquo;, his development of a water-borne theory of cholera transmission, and/or his pioneering role in
anaesthesia, it is the dot-map that makes him a hero in medical geography. 
The story forms part of
our disciplinary identity. Geographers have helped to shape the Snow narrative: the map has become
part of the myth. Many of the published accounts of Snow are accompanied by versions of the map, but
which map did Snow use? What happens to the meaning of our story when the determinative use of the
map is challenged? In his book On the Mode of Communication of Cholera (2nd ed., John Churchill,
London, 1855), Snow did not write that he used a map to identify the source of the outbreak. The map
that accompanies his text shows cholera deaths in Golden Square (the subdistrict of London's Soho
district where the outbreak occurred) from August 19 to September 30, a period much longer than the
intense outbreak. What happens to the meaning of the myth when the causal connection between the
pump's disengagement and the end of the outbreak is examined? Snow's data and text do not support
this link but show that the number of cholera deaths was abating before the handle was removed. With
the drama of the pump handle being questioned and the map, our artifact, occupying a more
illustrative than central role, what is our sense of Snow?


The bibliography contains about 1200 citations (most with abstracts) and I will be happy to provide
an electronic
copy to anyone interested. The bibliography is available as a printable PDF file, a REFER-formated
text file or as
and EndNote library.

--
Dr. Duane F. Marble
Professor Emeritus of Geography         Telephone:  614-292-4419 Center for Mapping                           Fax:  614-292-8062 The Ohio State University
1216 Kinnear                                   Email:  marble.1@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio  43212

         "Two important characteristics of maps should be noticed.
          A map is not the territory it represents, but, if correct,
          it has a similar structure to the territory, which accounts
          for its usefulness. . . . "  (pg. 58)

      - Alfred Korbzybski in Science and Sanity, (1933, 1950)


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

List-info: http://www.maphist.nl

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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:06:19 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Vlad Shkurkin <shkurkin@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: [MapHist] Re: Insurance policy number on maps
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<x-html>
<html>
<font size=3>The Sanborn map company purposely widened the main streets on many of their maps of congested districts, to allow agents to add annotations as an aid in keeping track of their insured properties.&nbsp; The notation would be &quot;Widened&quot; followed by actual width in feet, to indicate that one should not scale the width of the street from the map.<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Vlad Shkurkin<br>
6025 Rose Arbor<br>
San Pablo California 94806-4147 USA<br> 30 km NE of San Francisco<br>
1-510 232 7742, fax 236-7050</font></html>

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From: "Charles Burroughs" <stepladr@EROLS.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] FW:  Behaim Globe / Maps - - Re-visited
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:11:31 -0500
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At Peter's urging, I send this (w/ corrections, additions) to the List:

Today, I purchased two small hemispheric maps, both apparently from "The Diamond Atlas" by Charles Morse, NY: 1857.  Each hemisphere (E-ern & W-ern) is inscribed within approx. 13cm x 15cm "square" neatlines.  Over the top of each hemisphere appears "MAP OF THE WORLD, COMPILED IN 1492" and around the bottom, "FROM STRABO, PTOLEMY, PLINY & MARCO PAULO."  Interestingly, the typeset for the E-ern is "plain" and the type for the W-ern is "bold," indicating they may have appeared in two different versions of the same atlas.  The E-ern is attributed: "By Martin Benhaim, Nurenburg." The W-ern: "By Martin Behaim Nurenburg"  making note of the two different spellings for "Behaim."  These inscriptions are centered along the bottoms of each "square."  Further, along the very bottom of the "square" for the E-ern, one finds: "Lon.W.from Greenwich".  Each map is steel engraved and hand colored.
The only "circles" shown on each map are the "Equinoctial Line" (Equator), the "Tropic Capricorn," the "Antarctic Circle," the "Tropic of Cancer," the "Arctic Circle" AND the "Ecliptic" with its zodiacal signs.  Libra is clearly lined up with the Prime Meridian (by inference as this Great Circle is not drawn on the map).

Drawing once again from the 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica:  "ZODIAC, in astronomy and astrology, a zone of the heavens within which lie the paths of the sun, moon and principal planets.  It is bounded by two circles equidistant from the ecliptic, about 18 degrees apart; and it is divided into 12 signs, and marked by twelve constellations. . . . (12 constellations, with symbols of the signs presented in tabular form) . . .
In the technical sense of the word the 12 'signs' are geometrical divisions 30 degrees in extent counting from the position of the sun at the vernal equinox.  In the time of Hipparchus the signs corresponded fairly closely with the constellations that is to say, the first sign (called Aires {i.e.
the Ram]} corresponded with the constellation Aires.  Owing to precession there is now a discrepancy amounting to the breadth of a whole sign, so that the sign Aires is occupied by the Pisces."  (See also CONSTELLATION)

Interestingly, in the instance of these two hemispheric maps, Aires, removed by 180 degrees from Libra along the ecliptic, intercepts the equator in the eastern extremity of the "Western Indian Ocean"  close to a land area called "High India."

I can only assume that these two hemispheric maps are based on the Behaim globe of that same year (1492), but perhaps with the Ecliptic redrawn so as to intercept the equator at the accepted PM at the time of the atlas (1857).
Peter, in your message of Feb. 13, you state "On Behaim's globes are small drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is indeed exceptional."  I believe such is the case also with these two map finds of today!


Charles @ Stepladder

http://stepladderbooks.antiquesasap.com www.WABAbooks.com




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Non-member submission from ["Leen Helmink" <helmink@helmink.com>]

From: "Leen Helmink" <helmink@helmink.com> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Website Update
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:20:45 +0100

Dear Friends,

please enjoy our updated website:

      www.helmink.com


With Compliments,


Leen Helmink
Antique Maps & Prints



Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

List-info: http://www.maphist.nl

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Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:09:04 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Derek Hayes  <derek@derekhayes.ca>
Subject: [MapHist] Desliens 1541(?) world map
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In response to my MapHist-posted query regarding the date and existence of the original Desliens world map attributed to 1541 and held by the Sächsische Landesbibliothek, in Dresden, Germany, I received the following off-list reply from Sarah Toulouse, chief librarian at the Bibliothèque municipale de Rennes, France. With her permission I am posting this together with another query from me and her further reply, as I am sure others on the list will be interested. However, although we seem to have determined that the original map certainly still exists, we are really no further ahead in the determination of its date. It is hard to see why a 1541 date would be on the original map incorrectly, but these things, of course, do happen. 

>From Sarah Toulouse:

I am not on the maphist list, but a friend of mine sent me the message you put on the list and some of the answers you got.
I studied the Normandy school of cartography a few years ago for my thesis, and of course had the same problem with the Desliens map. As you already know from the Dresde library, the map was not destroyed but greatly damaged by water in 1945, while the library was burning after some bomb raids. Here is what told me the director of the map collection : "colours washed off, parchment became wavy, got out of the frame ; the map is still existing but provided for taking a look at it only in exceptional cases".
So as everybody else who wants to study this map, I had to study the fac-simile made in 1903.
About the date, the first thing is that the 4 really seems to have been added afterwards on something scratched out. Then, like David Quinn and Helen Wallis on the introduction of the fac-simile of the Roze atlas, I do think that the coastlines of South America and Scandinavia on this map show that this map can't be from the 1540's : - this kind of depiction of the Amazon appears for the first time on Pierre Desceliers map of 1550
- Desliens seems to be the first Norman cartographer to depict Scandinavia a bit more accurately than the Portuguese model Roze (1542), Desceliers (1546-1553) and Le Testu (1556) use, so I think his work must have been done after 1555.
  
The Dresde map is very close to an atlas that is located in the Pierpont Morgan Library in New York (M 506), which is anonymous and not dated. This atlas was attributed to different cartographers, Marcel Destombes was in favour of Desceliers, but I am quite sure that the author is Desliens.
There is no date on it, but for the same geographical reasons, it has been dated around 1555.
  
--------------------------------------- My reply:

Thanks you very much for taking the time to reply to my MapHist-posted query. Your response certainly clears up the question of whether the map exists, and seems to confirm that the date is not 1541. 

I examined the date (my reproduction is quite a good one) and while I certainly see what you mean, to me it looks like it is written on a the slightly different coloured underside of the "tape"; this colour is also evident on the piece next to it, so I cannot say that it has been added afterwards on something scratched out. Frankly, it does not look like that to me. However, this is simply a visual assessment from the reproduction, so you may well be correct.

Certainly the geographical evidence from elsewhere on the map is important.
Unfortunately I received only the North American quadrant of the map (in order to get better detail in the part I was looking at) so do not have the South American or Scandinavian parts. I take it that you have not been able to identify any specific depiction of something that was discovered by Europeans later than 1541 that would definitely mean the map could not be 1541?

I don't think the date is something I am going to be able to resolve. My interest stems from a historical atlas of Canada that I am presently finishing (it will be published in September), in which I have included reproductions of many of the Dieppe maps. The Desliens one was particularly interesting for a book of this nature because if it were 1541 it would be the earliest map to contain the name "Canada." Now, it seems, this distinction really belongs to the "Harleian" map in the British Library. I shall explain the difficulties in the map captions. 

----------------------------------
Ms Toulouse's further reply:

I agree with you about the date on the map : it is difficult to decide if something was really scratched out under the 4 if you only have a reproduction (and I had to work on the facsimile). Someone will have to take a close look at the remains of the original one day ! Maybe the Dresde librarian could be asked to look at it with this in mind ?

As for the geographical evidence, I actually think you are right : if I remember well, there is no specific depiction of something discovered after 1541. There even is an argument for a 1541 date : on this map, Desliens depicted the discoveries of the first two travels of Jacques Cartier in 1534 and 1536, but nothing appears of the third travel, which occured in 1541...
But one would have to check precisely the West Coast of South America, where there might be interesting things about the date.

I would say that the map could actually be from 1541, but in that case, Desliens would have depicted a more accurate Scandinavia  and South America 10 or 15 years earlier than the other Norman cartographers.

I am sorry this is not really satisfying, I hope one day I will have time to do some more researches on those cartographers.

--------------------------------
Any other thoughts by anyone who knows the map?

Derek Hayes.




------------------------
Derek Hayes

Vancouver, BC Canada

derek@derekhayes.ca

http://www.derekhayes.ca

Phone 604 541 7850

Author: 
Historical Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest (1999) Historical Atlas of the Pacific Northwest (US edition, 1999) First Crossing: Alexander Mackenzie, His Expedition Across North America, and the Opening of a Continent (2001)
Historical Atlas of the North Pacific Ocean (2001)

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From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Recent doctorates
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:39:56 -0000
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<DIV>Once again, I am attempting my annual task of listing all the recently awarded doctorates that are in, or closely related to, the History of Cartography.&nbsp; This will be included in the 'Personal News' section of the next Imago Mundi 'Chronicle', to be published in July.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As always, most of the information comes from ProQuest &lt; <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><A href="http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/gateway/main">http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/gateway/main</A><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;<FONT size=3>&nbsp; &gt;.&nbsp; This, inevitably, means that most of the PhDs listed are from the US and Canada.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>The list that follows at the end of this message&nbsp;- representing all those I know about at present - has only ONE name from outside North America.&nbsp;&nbsp; Please help me to make the listing more representative.&nbsp; I *know* there must have been other awards, particularly in Europe.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Who do you know (or *think*) has been awarded a PhD in the past year or so?&nbsp; Please send me the following information, or the email of the person concerned:-</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Name:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>University and department:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Date awarded:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Dissertation title:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Publication details (if relevant):</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>If you wonder if the information has already been recorded - and I am interested in *any* doctorates awarded from 1995 onwards - please look at the cumulative Doctorates page on 'Map History' &lt; <A 
href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/phd.html">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/phd.html</A>&nbsp;&gt;.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The 2002 names will be added to that page in the next week or so, once 'Chronicle' has been completed.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>I am also interested in any people who expect to complete within the next twelve months.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Finally, this is *absolutely* the last call for this year's Chronicle.&nbsp;&nbsp; Is there a piece of news you should have sent me, but were saving up until the last minute for dramatic effect?&nbsp; This is the last minute.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">*****************************************<BR>Tony Campbell<BR>76 Ockendon Road<BR>London N1 3NW<BR>UK</SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><A 
href="mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk">t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk</A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">Tel: 020 7359 6477&nbsp; International: +44 20 7359 6477<BR>******************************************<BR>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'<BR><A href="http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps">http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps</A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>Recently awarded Doctorates:-</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Eric H. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Ash</B>, Princeton University, 2000. &#8216;&#8221;The skylfullest men&#8221;: Patronage, authority, and the negotiation of expertise in Elizabethan England&#8217; [discussing the reconstruction of Dover Harbour and mathematical methods of navigation].<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV> <DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Elio Christoph <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Brancaforte</B>, Harvard University, 2001. 
&#8216;Reading word and image: Representations of Safavid Persia in the maps and frontispieces of Adam Olearius (ca. 1650)&#8217;.</SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3>&nbsp;</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Lisa <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Davis Allen</B>, University of Texas at Arlington, Department of History, May 2001. &#8216;The color of nationalism: the use of formal elements as a vehicle for projecting national identities in early modern European maps and 
paintings&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Debra Lynn <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Diamond</B>, Columbia University, 2000. 
&#8216;The politics and aesthetics of citation: Nath painting in Jodhpur, 1803-1843&#8217; [Including a discussion of pilgrimage maps].<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Eduardo de Jesus <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Douglas</B>, University of Texas at Austin, 2000. &#8216;In the palace of Nezahualcoyotl: History and painting in early colonial Tetzcoco&#8217; [discussing the 16th century Quinatzin and Tlohtzin maps and the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Codex Xolotl].</I><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Erland de <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Groot</B>, Katholieke Universiteit Nijmegen, March 2001. &#8216;De Atlas Blaeu-Van der Hem: De verzamelde wereld van een 17de-eeuwse liefhebber&#8217; [&#8216;t Goy-Houten: HES &amp; De Graaf Publishers, 2001].<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>An English language edition is in preparation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Donald Kimball <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Smith</B>, University of Iowa, 2001. 
&#8216;Mapping more than the world: Shaping the cartographic imagination in late medieval and early modern England (Edmund Spenser, Christopher Saxton, Christopher Marlowe, Sir Walter Ralegh, Andrew Marvell)&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Lan-ying <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Tseng</B>, Harvard University, 2001. 
&#8216;Picturing heaven: Image and knowledge in Han China&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <maphist@maphist.nl>)
Subject: Re:  [MapHist] Recent doctorates
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Non-member submission from ["nicole.vanderauwera@pandora.be" <nicole.vanderauwera@pandora.be>]

From: "nicole.vanderauwera@pandora.be" <nicole.vanderauwera@pandora.be> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re:  [MapHist] Recent doctorates Date: Mon 25 Feb 2002 20:07:12 MET

Recently (I believe in 1999) H.A.M. Van der Heyden published his doctorate. 
If I am not mistaken the publisher was Peeters, Leuven. The thesis had the maps of the Low Countries as subject. If you want I can look for more details and communicate them to you - off list.
Ad meskens

------------------------
  maphist@geog.uu.nl wrote:
------------------------

List-owner's addition:
HEIJDEN, H.A.M. VAN DER
Oude kaarten der Nederlanden, 1548-1794: Historische beschouwing, kaartbeschrijving, afbeelding, commentaar = Old Maps of the Netherlands, 1548-1794: An annotated and illustrated cartobibliography / H.A.M. van der Heijden. - Alphen aan den Rijn: Uitgeverij Canaletto/Repro-Holland; Leuven: Universitaire Pers, 1998. - 2 dln., 892 blz. - ISBN 90-6186-909-9 (Univ. 
Pers) of 90-6469-740-X (Canaletto).

I cannot find the date of the dissertation, but that was probably in 1997 (Mr. Van der Heijden is on MapHist). I think this is too early for Tony's list of recent doctorates.

Peter


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

List-info: http://www.maphist.nl

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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:30:29 -0800
From: Chris Hermansen <clh@TIMBERLINE.CA>
Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] FW:  Behaim Globe / Maps - - Re-visited
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An interesting post from Charles Burroughs.

The issues of longitude, season, and time are conflated in this topic in a way that makes it difficult for me, at least, to separate.

The Greenwich Prime Meridian was selected as the universal 0 point in 1884 (France & Brasil abstained, San Domingo voted against).  Before this, especially in Behaim's time, I don't know why someone would choose to portray the crossing of the ecliptic (astrological, astronomical or otherwise) and equator at this longitude.  There's no particular physical
reason; perhaps there's some European astrological tradition to follow?

As for Morse, presumably he just used earlier plates (or copied them without editing), as by 1857 cartographers would presumably not have placed Aries in Africa and Libra somewhere off the west coast of Australia.

Charles Burroughs wrote:
> 
> At Peter's urging, I send this (w/ corrections, additions) to the List:
> 
> Today, I purchased two small hemispheric maps, both apparently from "The
> Diamond Atlas" by Charles Morse, NY: 1857.  Each hemisphere (E-ern & W-ern)
> is inscribed within approx. 13cm x 15cm "square" neatlines.  Over the top of
> each hemisphere appears "MAP OF THE WORLD, COMPILED IN 1492" and around the
> bottom, "FROM STRABO, PTOLEMY, PLINY & MARCO PAULO."  Interestingly, the
> typeset for the E-ern is "plain" and the type for the W-ern is "bold,"
> indicating they may have appeared in two different versions of the same
> atlas.  The E-ern is attributed: "By Martin Benhaim, Nurenburg." The W-ern:
> "By Martin Behaim Nurenburg"  making note of the two different spellings for
> "Behaim."  These inscriptions are centered along the bottoms of each
> "square."  Further, along the very bottom of the "square" for the E-ern, one
> finds: "Lon.W.from Greenwich".  Each map is steel engraved and hand colored.
> The only "circles" shown on each map are the "Equinoctial Line" (Equator),
> the "Tropic Capricorn," the "Antarctic Circle," the "Tropic of Cancer," the
> "Arctic Circle" AND the "Ecliptic" with its zodiacal signs.  Libra is
> clearly lined up with the Prime Meridian (by inference as this Great Circle
> is not drawn on the map).
> 
> Drawing once again from the 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica:  "ZODIAC, in
> astronomy and astrology, a zone of the heavens within which lie the paths of
> the sun, moon and principal planets.  It is bounded by two circles
> equidistant from the ecliptic, about 18 degrees apart; and it is divided
> into 12 signs, and marked by twelve constellations. . . . (12
> constellations, with symbols of the signs presented in tabular form) . . .
> In the technical sense of the word the 12 'signs' are geometrical divisions
> 30 degrees in extent counting from the position of the sun at the vernal
> equinox.  In the time of Hipparchus the signs corresponded fairly closely
> with the constellations that is to say, the first sign (called Aires {i.e.
> the Ram]} corresponded with the constellation Aires.  Owing to precession
> there is now a discrepancy amounting to the breadth of a whole sign, so that
> the sign Aires is occupied by the Pisces."  (See also CONSTELLATION)
> 
> Interestingly, in the instance of these two hemispheric maps, Aires, removed
> by 180 degrees from Libra along the ecliptic, intercepts the equator in the
> eastern extremity of the "Western Indian Ocean"  close to a land area called
> "High India."
> 
> I can only assume that these two hemispheric maps are based on the Behaim
> globe of that same year (1492), but perhaps with the Ecliptic redrawn so as
> to intercept the equator at the accepted PM at the time of the atlas (1857).
> Peter, in your message of Feb. 13, you state "On Behaim's globes are small
> drawings of the zodiacal constellations, which is indeed exceptional."  I
> believe such is the case also with these two map finds of today!
> 
> Charles @ Stepladder
> 
> http://stepladderbooks.antiquesasap.com
> www.WABAbooks.com
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl

-- 
Regards,

Chris Hermansen  ·  Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue  ·  Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca  ·  Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca  ·  FAX: +1 604 733 0634

C'est ma façon de parler.
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
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Subject: RE: [MapHist] Recent doctorates
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:45:42 -0000
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Tony (and maybe Dutch colleagues who are unaware of this),

Purely by chance, in an e-mail exchange only yesterday concerning my search for states and copies of Stanford's Antarctica map of 1901 to 1928 (10 states identified so far - as everyone will be bored to know), I incidentally learned the following:-

	"However, I myself am working on a thesis with the  following subject: The development of the Antarctic ice shelves,  sea ice and iceberg boundaries during the period 1770-1950 using  old maps, charts and logbooks." 

This news from ms drs Nanka Karstkarel, Arctic Centre, University of Groningen (I can supply, off-list, her e-mail address should you wish to contact her directly).

Francis Herbert
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	tony campbell [SMTP:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk]
> Sent:	25 February 2002 18:40
> To:	*MapHist
> Subject:	[MapHist] Recent doctorates
> 
> Once again, I am attempting my annual task of listing all the recently
> awarded doctorates that are in, or closely related to, the History of
> Cartography.  This will be included in the 'Personal News' section of the
> next Imago Mundi 'Chronicle', to be published in July.  
>  
> As always, most of the information comes from ProQuest <
> <http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/gateway/main>   >.  This, inevitably,
> means that most of the PhDs listed are from the US and Canada.
>  
> The list that follows at the end of this message - representing all those
> I know about at present - has only ONE name from outside North America.
> Please help me to make the listing more representative.  I *know* there
> must have been other awards, particularly in Europe.
>  
> Who do you know (or *think*) has been awarded a PhD in the past year or
> so?  Please send me the following information, or the email of the person
> concerned:-
>  
> Name:
> University and department:
> Date awarded:
> Dissertation title:
> Publication details (if relevant):
>  
> If you wonder if the information has already been recorded - and I am
> interested in *any* doctorates awarded from 1995 onwards - please look at
> the cumulative Doctorates page on 'Map History' <
> <http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/phd.html> >.    The 2002 names will be added to
> that page in the next week or so, once 'Chronicle' has been completed.
>  
> I am also interested in any people who expect to complete within the next
> twelve months.
>  
> Finally, this is *absolutely* the last call for this year's Chronicle.
> Is there a piece of news you should have sent me, but were saving up until
> the last minute for dramatic effect?  This is the last minute.
>  
> *****************************************
> Tony Campbell
> 76 Ockendon Road
> London N1 3NW
> UK
>  
> t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk <mailto:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
>  
> Tel: 020 7359 6477  International: +44 20 7359 6477
> ******************************************
> 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject'
> <http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps>
>  
>  
> Recently awarded Doctorates:-
> Eric H. Ash, Princeton University, 2000. '"The skylfullest men":
> Patronage, authority, and the negotiation of expertise in Elizabethan
> England' [discussing the reconstruction of Dover Harbour and mathematical
> methods of navigation].
> 
>  Elio Christoph Brancaforte, Harvard University, 2001. 'Reading word and
> image: Representations of Safavid Persia in the maps and frontispieces of
> Adam Olearius (ca. 1650)'.
> 
>  Lisa Davis Allen, University of Texas at Arlington, Department of
> History, May 2001. 'The color of nationalism: the use of formal elements
> as a vehicle for projecting national identities in early modern European
> maps and paintings'.
> 
>  Debra Lynn Diamond, Columbia University, 2000. 'The politics and
> aesthetics of citation: Nath painting in Jodhpur, 1803-1843' [Including a
> discussion of pilgrimage maps].
> 
>  Eduardo de Jesus Douglas, University of Texas at Austin, 2000. 'In the
> palace of Nezahualcoyotl: History and painting in early colonial Tetzcoco'
> [discussing the 16th century Quinatzin and Tlohtzin maps and the Codex
> Xolotl].
> 
> Erland de Groot, Katholieke Universiteit Nijmegen, March 2001. 'De Atlas
> Blaeu-Van der Hem: De verzamelde wereld van een 17de-eeuwse liefhebber'
> ['t Goy-Houten: HES & De Graaf Publishers, 2001].  An English language
> edition is in preparation.
> 
>  Donald Kimball Smith, University of Iowa, 2001. 'Mapping more than the
> world: Shaping the cartographic imagination in late medieval and early
> modern England (Edmund Spenser, Christopher Saxton, Christopher Marlowe,
> Sir Walter Ralegh, Andrew Marvell)'.
> 
> Lan-ying Tseng, Harvard University, 2001. 'Picturing heaven: Image and
> knowledge in Han China'.
> 
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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:48:53 +0100
Subject: Re : [MapHist] FW:  Behaim Globe / Maps - - Re-visited
From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" <jean.pierre.martin@wanadoo.fr>
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I thank  you all for your interest in the Behaim globe and my question.

The representation of the zodiac (even with a tropical zodiac) on a map or globe doesnt bother me at all.  Since the ecliptic is represented together with tropics parallel (associated with the movement of the sun), there is no difficulty to represent the solar movement through the zodiacal signs instead of degrees.

 The only problem for me is the choice of the intersection on what I have called  (perhaps abusively) a PM, and its location on the Greenwich meridian which is not assessed (at least for me) on clear historical facts at the date of globe making by Martin Behaim. I thought Greenwich history could give an answer. The reference to a prime meridian in Paris is well assessed as well as the Portugese Canarian (?) one (probably derived as far as I know from the greek Oekoumene west limit for geopolitical reasons which itself was centered on Rhodes Island) , but I have no references on the London or Greenwich one before being known at later times.  Was there any specific cartographic school in England at this date?

Waiting for some available time to go deeper in the Greenwich history, Martin Behaim biography and detailed german analysis of the globe, I would suggest some remarks:
- the fact that the 1857 reproduction is indicating "Lon.W.from Greenwich" could be attributed to a comment of the maker, Charles Morse, is it correct?
- Aries is an origin as far as the vernal equinox is considered as the beginning of an astronomical year, and generally considered as the origin of the tropical zodiac (as in Horoscopes). However, though not being an ethnoastronomy specialist the fact that Libra is here shown is not unusual since I think the beginning of the year may have corresponded with the autumn equinox for various people/traditions (I will check coming back from holidays). Thus, a libra zodiacal origin may be correlated with a "prime meridian" in the best known part of the world and makes sense (and not at the antipodes which would be rather stunning).

I was hoping that HASTRO-L and Maphist specialists could answer through the Martin Behaim biography and Greenwich (or perhaps London or other significant place of the Meridian) history with direct relevant references unknown to me.

I think this deserves a special research, at least from myself. Taking into account my deficience in german language a direct contact with researchers would be better, if possible.


Jean-Pierre MARTIN



----------
>De : "Charles Burroughs" <stepladr@EROLS.COM>
>À : <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
>Objet : [MapHist] FW:  Behaim Globe / Maps - - Re-visited
>Date : Dim 24 fév 2002 16:11
>

> At Peter's urging, I send this (w/ corrections, additions) to the List:
>
> Today, I purchased two small hemispheric maps, both apparently from "The
> Diamond Atlas" by Charles Morse, NY: 1857.  Each hemisphere (E-ern & W-ern)
> is inscribed within approx. 13cm x 15cm "square" neatlines.  Over the top of
> each hemisphere appears "MAP OF THE WORLD, COMPILED IN 1492" and around the
> bottom, "FROM STRABO, PTOLEMY, PLINY & MARCO PAULO."  Interestingly, the
> typeset for the E-ern is "plain" and the type for the W-ern is "bold,"
> indicating they may have appeared in two different versions of the same
> atlas.  The E-ern is attributed: "By Martin Benhaim, Nurenburg." The W-ern:
> "By Martin Behaim Nurenburg"  making note of the two different spellings for
> "Behaim."  These inscriptions are centered along the bottoms of each
> "square."  Further, along the very bottom of the "square" for the E-ern, one
> finds: "Lon.W.from Greenwich".  Each map is steel engraved and hand colored.
> The only "circles" shown on each map are the "Equinoctial Line" (Equator),
> the "Tropic Capricorn," the "Antarctic Circle," the "Tropic of Cancer," the
> "Arctic Circle" AND the "Ecliptic" with its zodiacal signs.  Libra is
> clearly lined up with the Prime Meridian (by inference as this Great Circle
> is not drawn on the map).
>
> Drawing once again from the 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica:  "ZODIAC, in
> astronomy and astrology, a zone of the heavens within which lie the paths of
> the sun, moon and principal planets.  It is bounded by two circles
> equidistant from the ecliptic, about 18 degrees apart; and it is divided
> into 12 signs, and marked by twelve constellations. . . . (12
> constellations, with symbols of the signs presented in tabular form) . . 
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<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from [Vladimiro Valerio <vladimir@unina.it>]

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:50:23 +0100
Subject: Re: [MapHist] FW:  Behaim Globe / Maps - - Re-visited From: Vladimiro Valerio <vladimir@unina.it> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>

Dear all,
I am woking at the collation of the Atlases by Giuseppe Rodini, Celestino Ricci and the ones published by the Gabinetto Letterario, all from the XIX century Neapolitan production.
I am looking for more copies of the atlases to implement my "location" line in their description.
The titles are:
Giuseppe Rodini (author and engraver), Atlante di Geografia Moderna, Napoli (various editions between 1839 and 1880, 60x40 cm);

Celestino Ricci (author), Picciolo Atlante ... del Regno di Napoli, Napoli 1813, 18x11 cm;

Atlante universale e portatile di geografia ..., Napoli, Gabinetto Letterario (various editions between 1813 and 1847, 21x26 cm).

Giuseppe Rodini was also author of a collapsable globe of which I have found no copy, and also of Geographical texts and spare maps. On this activitites too news are welcome.

Thanks to all

Vladimiro

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Vladimiro Valerio
Via Raffaello Morghen, 88
I-80129 Napoli
phone &fax +39-081-5568952
+39-335-403807
vladimir@unina.it

Istituto Universitario di Architettura
Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer
I-30125 Venezia
+39-041-2571458
vladimir@iuav.it
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:39:09 -0800
From: Chris Hermansen <clh@TIMBERLINE.CA>
Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
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Jean-Pierre MARTIN wrote:
> 
> I thank  you all for your interest in the Behaim globe and my
> question.
> 
> The representation of the zodiac (even with a tropical zodiac) on a
> map or globe doesnt bother me at all.  Since the ecliptic is
> represented together with tropics parallel (associated with the
> movement of the sun), there is no difficulty to represent the solar
> movement through the zodiacal signs instead of degrees.

Jean-Pierre, I may be misunderstanding what you're saying above.
In any case, the ecliptic is never parallel to the equator or tropics.
The earth's axis is not perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic, which would be required to show the great circle of the ecliptic parallel.

You can, following Charles, say the ecliptic divides the celestial sphere into 12 "wedges".  However, depending on the hour of the day and the day of the year you will find a different constellation at the eastern horizon, or at the zenith, or whereever you choose to use as your celestial reference point.

So it really makes no physical sense whatsoever to portray the signs of the zodiac over a certain point on earth unless you are speaking of a particular time of day and day of the year when that event occurs.

> - Aries is an origin as far as the vernal equinox is considered as the
> beginning of an astronomical year, and generally considered as the
> origin of the tropical zodiac (as in Horoscopes).

Strictly (astronomically) speaking, this isn't quite correct.  The vernal equinox is often referred to as "the first point of Aries", but the first point of Aries is today considered by astronomers to be located in Pisces.  That is, the point is in the "right" place for the vernal equinox, but the name hasn't changed to follow.

As for "the beginning of the astronomical year", I'm not sure if that's a meaningful concept.  The sidereal and solar clocks synchronize at the equinoxes and drift apart otherwise.

As for horoscopes, I'm afraid my knowledge of things astrological is far too scant to comment.

>                                                 However, though not
> being an ethnoastronomy specialist the fact that Libra is here shown
> is not unusual since I think the beginning of the year may have
> corresponded with the autumn equinox for various people/traditions (I
> will check coming back from holidays). Thus, a libra zodiacal origin
> may be correlated with a "prime meridian" in the best known part of
> the world and makes sense (and not at the antipodes which would be
> rather stunning).

The only new year/autumnal equinox tradition I can think of that might apply in Behaim's locale would be that of Rosh Hashanah and that might also seem stunning.

Perhaps turning the question on its head might help.  Behaim portrayed the constellations at some particular point on the globe.  That implies a certain time of year.  What was the significance of that time of year for Behaim?  For example, it could have been his birthdate, or that of his patron; or some such.

I think the idea of looking for a "prime meridian" that is of some significance just obscures the astronomical mechanisms which which someone of Behaim's capability must have been familiar.
-- 
Regards,

Chris Hermansen  ·  Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue  ·  Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca  ·  Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca  ·  FAX: +1 604 733 0634

C'est ma façon de parler.
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From: "henk van der heijden" <h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] dissertation
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:51:42 +0100
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According to the rules of Louvain University a dissertation has to be offered in manuscript. Therefore my dissertation has been printed in 8 copies. The date was December 2d 1996. The book publication has been added by the list owner
H.A.M. van der Heijden
Lange Reen 2
5524 AJ Steensel (NL)
0497- 514637

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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:52:02 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J. Voogt" <j.voogt@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Fort "Prete" in the Rhine.
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I am working for the explokart project "maps and plans" in Dutch pamphlet-collections until 1648.
Do anyone can help me?
I am looking for a map, whereupon is noticed the fort Prete in the river Rhine near the outlet of the river Sieg in the Rhine.
The illustration is on the maphist-illutration-page: http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html
I have found the copperplate-engraving (18x24 cm.) affixed in an Italian pamphlet, about the siege of Antwerp, edited in Vicenza, apresso Giorgio Greco 1595.

Han Voogt

J.Voogt@geog.uu.nl
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

J.W.F. Voogt
Redactie Caert-Thresoor
Faculteit Ruimtelijke Wetenschappen
Postbus 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT
e-mail: j.voogt@geog.uu.nl
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:07:14 +0100
From: Göran Bäärnhielm <goran.baarnhielm@kb.se>
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Fort "Prete" in the Rhine.
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The name of the fort seems to be "Bereta di Prete" which means "Priest's Hat", in German "Pfaffenmütz" and you find that on contemporary broadsheets.

Best regards
Göran Bäärnhielm, Map Curator   
Kungl. biblioteket - The Royal Library - National Library of Sweden P.O. Box 5039, SE-102 41 Stockholm, Sweden Tel.: +46-8-463 4180. Fax: +46-8-463 4328.
E-mail: goran.baarnhielm@kb.se


"J. Voogt" skrev:
> 
> I am working for the explokart project "maps and plans" in Dutch
> pamphlet-collections until 1648.
> Do anyone can help me?
> I am looking for a map, whereupon is noticed the fort Prete in the river
> Rhine near the outlet of the river Sieg in the Rhine.
> The illustration is on the maphist-illutration-page:
> http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html
> I have found the copperplate-engraving (18x24 cm.) affixed in an Italian
> pamphlet, about the siege of Antwerp, edited in Vicenza, apresso Giorgio
> Greco 1595.
> 
> Han Voogt
> 
> J.Voogt@geog.uu.nl
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> J.W.F. Voogt
> Redactie Caert-Thresoor
> Faculteit Ruimtelijke Wetenschappen
> Postbus 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT
> e-mail: j.voogt@geog.uu.nl
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:30:35 +0100
From: "Paul van den Brink" <paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Fort "Prete" in the Rhine.
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Dear Han,

According to Muller "De Nederlandsche Geschiedenis in Platen" (Amsterdam 1863-1870), vol. 1, no. 1463, what you see on the plate is the siege by the Duc of Neuburg of the Fort "de Papenmuts" (= Baretta di Preti"). For an explication on the architecture of the fort www.coehoorn.nl/begrippenlijst/begrippen/papenmuts.html. The fort was built by Maurits on an small isle in the river Rhine between Bonn and Cologne. At the the north of the map you (probably) see the village of Bergheim (Berghem). Cf. Muller 1429 and 1430 on more information on the location and situation of the fort

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands


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From: "Hyman, John" <JHyman@cwf.org>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] von Reilly
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:06:11 -0500
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A couple of questions so please bear with me.

First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled: Schauplatz der Funf Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation than (to borrow from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the World?

Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the islands around Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?   Does he focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas, which appears to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on his work will be gratefully received.

Thanks in advance.

John Hyman


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:51:34 +0100
Subject: Re: [MapHist] von Reilly
From: Vladimiro Valerio <vladimir@unina.it>
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Dear Hyman,
a complete detailed list of all the plates in the Shauplatz ... is to be found in Johannes Dorflinger and Helga Huhnel, Atlantes Austriaci 1561-1918, Bohlau Verlag 1995, pp. 83-102.
See also: Franz Wawrik, Beruhmte Atlanten, Dortmund, Harenberg 1982,pp.264-467, with literature at page 325.

Vladimiro

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Vladimiro Valerio
Via Raffaello Morghen, 88
I-80129 Napoli
phone &fax +39-081-5568952
+39-335-403807
vladimir@unina.it

Istituto Universitario di Architettura
Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer
I-30125 Venezia
+39-041-2571458
vladimir@iuav.it
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW  



Il giorno 27-02-2002 18:06, Hyman, John, JHyman@cwf.org ha scritto:

> 
> A couple of questions so please bear with me.
> 
> First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled: Schauplatz der Funf
> Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation than (to borrow
> from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the World?
> 
> Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the islands around
> Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?   Does he
> focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas, which appears
> to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on his work will be
> gratefully received.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> John Hyman
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
> 

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Subject: RE: [MapHist] von Reilly
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:25:34 +0100
Thread-Topic: [MapHist] von Reilly
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From: Veselin Miskovic <Veselin.Miskovic@NUK.UNI-LJ.SI>
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Hi there,

first, I can't offer you a better translation of Reilly's Schauplatz. In regard to your second question, I advise you to consult Doerflinger's  Die Oesterreichische Kartographie... Wien, 1984. It is an exhaustive bibliographic study of Austrian cartographic production of 18th century and the beginning of 19th century. For just in case that you don't have this publication at hand the following (after Doerflinger): Reilly (1766-1820) is a representative of the so called Austrian "private cartography".
The "Schauplatz..." is an excellent achievemnt of his firm. The atlas had been issued in sheets on Thursdays between 1789 and 1806. It is a complement to A.F. Buesching's grosser Erdbeschreibung... (Wien, 1784-1790) in 24 vols. There you can find some historical cartographic information concerning particular lands too. I imagine Reilly did his job as good as he possibly could, for Doerflinger regards his work as an achievemnt in technical terms and in scope. Hopefully this is of some use...

Have a nice day -Veselin Miskovic

-----Original Message-----
From: Hyman, John [mailto:JHyman@cwf.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:06 PM To: 'maphist@geog.uu.nl'
Subject: [MapHist] von Reilly



A couple of questions so please bear with me.

First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled: Schauplatz der Funf
Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation than (to borrow
from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the World?

Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the islands around
Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?
Does he
focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas, which appears
to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on his work will be
gratefully received.

Thanks in advance.

John Hyman


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This message was refused by majordomo because the headers contained illegal words. To prevend this, please send your postings as plain text - List-owner

From: "Schulenburg, Alexander" <Alexander.Schulenburg@corpoflondon.gov.uk> To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl> Subject: RE: [MapHist] von Reilly
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:02:31 -0000

 > First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled:=20  > Schauplatz der Funf Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a=20  > better translation than (to borrow from an earlier period)=20  > The Theatre of the Five Parts of the World?


A better translation for 'Schauplatz' (lit. 'a viewing place') is = 'arena'.
If that doesn't appeal, you could always translate it more loosely as 'exposition'.  Hence, 'Arena of the Five Parts of the World' or = 'Exposition
of the Five Parts of the World'.  I agree that 'theatre' isn't such a = good
translation, as it implies a performance.

Best regards,
Alexander Schulenburg
=A0



 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Hyman, John [mailto:JHyman@cwf.org]  > Sent: 27 February 2002 17:06
 > To: 'maphist@geog.uu.nl'
 > Subject: [MapHist] von Reilly
 >=20
 >=20
 >=20
 > A couple of questions so please bear with me.
 >=20
 > First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled:=20  > Schauplatz der Funf
 > Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation=20  > than (to borrow
 > from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the World?
 >=20
 > Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the=20  > islands around
 > Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?=20  >   Does he
 > focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas,=20  > which appears
 > to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on=20  > his work will be
 > gratefully received.
 >=20
 > Thanks in advance.
 >=20
 > John Hyman
 >=20
 >=20
 > _______________________________________________________________  > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography  > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht  > List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
 > List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl  > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl  >=20

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From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] RE: von Reilly
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:06:06 -0000
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Dear John Hyman,

And if you cannot cope with the Geman language, may I suggest - as brief background reading - the article 'The first Austrian world atlases : Schraembl and Reilly' by Johannes Doerflinger, published in that obscure little journal 'Imago Mundi' (ISSN 0308-5694),  1981,  33,  65-71 : ill.?
This is an Englsh translation of the author's paper presented at the 8th Internat. Conf. on the Hist. of Cartogr., [West] Berlin, 17-20.9.1979. 

Francis Herbert (Compiler of 'Imago Mundi Bibliography') f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Veselin Miskovic [SMTP:Veselin.Miskovic@NUK.UNI-LJ.SI]
> Sent:	28 February 2002 08:26
> To:	maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Subject:	RE: [MapHist] von Reilly
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> first, I can't offer you a better translation of Reilly's
> Schauplatz. In regard to your second question, I advise you to
> consult Doerflinger's  Die Oesterreichische Kartographie... Wien,
> 1984. It is an exhaustive bibliographic study of Austrian
> cartographic production of 18th century and the beginning of 19th
> century. For just in case that you don't have this publication at
> hand the following (after Doerflinger): Reilly (1766-1820) is a
> representative of the so called Austrian "private cartography".
> The "Schauplatz..." is an excellent achievemnt of his firm. The
> atlas had been issued in sheets on Thursdays between 1789 and
> 1806. It is a complement to A.F. Buesching's grosser
> Erdbeschreibung... (Wien, 1784-1790) in 24 vols. There you can
> find some historical cartographic information concerning
> particular lands too. I imagine Reilly did his job as good as he
> possibly could, for Doerflinger regards his work as an achievemnt
> in technical terms and in scope. Hopefully this is of some use...
> 
> Have a nice day -Veselin Miskovic
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hyman, John [mailto:JHyman@cwf.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:06 PM
> To: 'maphist@geog.uu.nl'
> Subject: [MapHist] von Reilly
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of questions so please bear with me.
> 
> First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled:
> Schauplatz der Funf
> Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation than
> (to borrow
> from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the
> World?
> 
> Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the
> islands around
> Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?
> Does he
> focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas,
> which appears
> to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on his
> work will be
> gratefully received.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> John Hyman
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of
> Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:55:02 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Theatre-Schauplatz (was von Reilly)
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<x-flowed>
Dear Alexander and list

At 10:10 28-2-2002, you wrote:
>   I agree that 'theatre' isn't such a =
>good
>translation, as it implies a performance.

Is the meaning of 'theatre' significantly changed in the last centuries? 
Following the publication of Ortelius'  Theatrum Orbis Terrarum many atlases got the name 'Theatrum',or the translation in different languages, such as Toonneel or Schouwtoneel (Dutch, modern spelling Toneel), Schawplatz, (German, modern spelling Schauplatz), Théâtre in French and Theatre in English (The Theatre of the Whole World, 1606, and further the atlases by Speed.
The meaning of this world is: place where you can see something, and was used as a metaphor for the world as early as 1561 (Le Théâtre  du Monde, ou il est faict un ample discours des misères humaines, Paris 1561; cf. p. 64 in my contribution in Van den Broecke et al., Abraham Ortelius and the first atlas, 1998).

If the meaning of theatre in English is not significantly changed, translating 'Schauplatz der Funf
Theil der Welt' as 'Threatre of the Five Parts of the World' seems to me the best option.

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:42:21 +0900
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Henny Savenije <adam&eve@HENNY-SAVENIJE.DEMON.NL>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theatre-Schauplatz (was von Reilly)
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<x-flowed>
At 09:55 PM 2/28/02, you wrote:
>Dear Alexander and list
>
>At 10:10 28-2-2002, you wrote:
>>   I agree that 'theatre' isn't such a =
>>good
>>translation, as it implies a performance.

<snip>

>If the meaning of theatre in English is not significantly changed, 
>translating 'Schauplatz der Funf Theil der Welt' as 'Threatre of the Five 
>Parts of the World' seems to me the best option.

According to my etymological dictionary, Theatre comes from the Latin Theatrum, which on its turn comes from the Greek Theatron, and was derived from theaomai, = I watch with admiration. So I guess in this sense it was used for the Atlases and could be used in this way again, why not?

But in daily life the word meant was it still means today. The Germans afraid of foreign influences in their language, just translated it. (No offence meant)


Henny (Lee Hae Kang)
-----------------------------

Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl (in English) In Korean
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/indexk2.htm In Dutch
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/FritsVos Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://odin.prohosting.com/savenije/index.htm#bovenaan (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon
http://www.geocities.com/hennysavenije
The way a ship was rigged:
http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures
http://cloud.prohosting.com/hsavenij/index.htm#bovenaan Genealogy
http://www.geocities.com/hennysavenije/genealogy

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From: "Hyman, John" <JHyman@cwf.org>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] RE: von Reilly
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:22:39 -0500
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Francis: I shall immediately consult our reference library and pull up a copy of that obscure little specialist publication you refer to, what is it?
Imago Mundi?   Great title.

Thanks, John

-----Original Message-----
From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG [mailto:F.Herbert@RGS.ORG] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:06 AM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] RE: von Reilly


Dear John Hyman,

And if you cannot cope with the Geman language, may I suggest - as brief background reading - the article 'The first Austrian world atlases : Schraembl and Reilly' by Johannes Doerflinger, published in that obscure little journal 'Imago Mundi' (ISSN 0308-5694),  1981,  33,  65-71 : ill.?
This is an Englsh translation of the author's paper presented at the 8th Internat. Conf. on the Hist. of Cartogr., [West] Berlin, 17-20.9.1979. 

Francis Herbert (Compiler of 'Imago Mundi Bibliography') f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections']

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Veselin Miskovic [SMTP:Veselin.Miskovic@NUK.UNI-LJ.SI]
> Sent:	28 February 2002 08:26
> To:	maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Subject:	RE: [MapHist] von Reilly
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> first, I can't offer you a better translation of Reilly's
> Schauplatz. In regard to your second question, I advise you to
> consult Doerflinger's  Die Oesterreichische Kartographie... Wien,
> 1984. It is an exhaustive bibliographic study of Austrian
> cartographic production of 18th century and the beginning of 19th
> century. For just in case that you don't have this publication at
> hand the following (after Doerflinger): Reilly (1766-1820) is a
> representative of the so called Austrian "private cartography".
> The "Schauplatz..." is an excellent achievemnt of his firm. The
> atlas had been issued in sheets on Thursdays between 1789 and
> 1806. It is a complement to A.F. Buesching's grosser
> Erdbeschreibung... (Wien, 1784-1790) in 24 vols. There you can
> find some historical cartographic information concerning
> particular lands too. I imagine Reilly did his job as good as he
> possibly could, for Doerflinger regards his work as an achievemnt
> in technical terms and in scope. Hopefully this is of some use...
> 
> Have a nice day -Veselin Miskovic
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hyman, John [mailto:JHyman@cwf.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:06 PM
> To: 'maphist@geog.uu.nl'
> Subject: [MapHist] von Reilly
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of questions so please bear with me.
> 
> First: F. J. J. von Reilly's 1789-1791 atlas is titled:
> Schauplatz der Funf
> Thiel der Welt.   Can anyone give me a better translation than
> (to borrow
> from an earlier period) The Theatre of the Five Parts of the
> World?
> 
> Second: von Reilly includes no less than eleven maps of the
> islands around
> Scotland.    Is he as detailed with other parts of the world?
> Does he
> focus on islands generally?  What is the nature of his atlas,
> which appears
> to be voluminous?       Any information you can furnish on his
> work will be
> gratefully received.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> John Hyman
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of
> Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
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From: "Faye G. Cook" <fgcook@BTINTERNET.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] The John Snow map/cholera story
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:20:52 -0000
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Members of the list may also wish to consult an article, 'Who made John Snow a hero?' by J.P. Vendenbroucke, H.M. Eelkman Rooda, and H. Beukers, in Am.
J. of Epidemiology, vol 133 (1991):967-973, which concludes that it was the US epidemiologist W.H. Frost who revived the work of John Snow in the 1930s and made him a hero, in order to create a historical tradition for the bacteriological paradigm advocated by Frost and his peers. In the process of setting out this argument, they note that the English epidemiologist Simon noted in 1890 how it had taken him '30 years' to recognize the 'rightness' of Snow's views, but that famous English works after that, such as Greenwood's, make no mention of Snow or drinking water (the English hero of the early 20th century was Charles Creighton).

Harold J. Cook
Prof. and Director
Wellcome Trust Centre at University College London h.cook@ucl.ac.uk

(permission to cross-post as appropriate)


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From: Strebe@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:26:44 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] von Reilly
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Alexander Schulenburg <Alexander.Schulenburg@corpoflondon.gov.uk> writes:

>A better translation for 'Schauplatz' (lit. 'a viewing place') is
>'arena'. If that doesn't appeal, you could always translate it more
>loosely as 'exposition'.  Hence, 'Arena of the Five Parts of the
>World' or 'Exposition of the Five Parts of the World'.  I agree
>that 'theatre' isn't such a good translation, as it implies a
>performance.

And Henny (Lee Hae Kang) <adam&eve@HENNY-SAVENIJE.DEMON.NL> wrote:

>But in daily life the word meant was it still means today.

"Theater/theatre" enjoys a long literary tradition in English beyond designating a place where plays are performed. Literary uses include "the theater of war", "the celestial theater", "theater of operations". I don't think popular illiteracy should influence the choice of translation of a literary source. Furthermore it is very likely that "Schauplatz" itself was intended as a translation of "Theatrum". Why, then, would one bother to search for an alternative to "theater/theatre"?

Regards,
daan Strebe 
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:13:46 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Owner MapHist <owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl>)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theatre-Schauplatz (was von Reilly)
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<x-flowed>
  Non-member submission from ["Vera + Roberto Mayer" <ryvmayer@internet.com.mx>]

From: "Vera + Roberto Mayer" <ryvmayer@internet.com.mx> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theatre-Schauplatz (was von Reilly) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:39:31 -0600

Abraham Ortelius called his atlas Theatrvm Orbis Terrarvm (Theater of the Earth Globe). Words have evolved, or changed, in their meaning over the ages. We also find maps called Tabvla (Table, which has several meanings even today) in the 16th century, and a table called Mapa, in the 18th century, in at least one case which caused great confusion among knowledgeable cartography historians.

Roberto L. Mayer


----- Original Message -----
From: "Henny Savenije" <adam&eve@HENNY-SAVENIJE.DEMON.NL> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theatre-Schauplatz (was von Reilly)


 > At 09:55 PM 2/28/02, you wrote:
 > >Dear Alexander and list
 > >
 > >At 10:10 28-2-2002, you wrote:
 > >>   I agree that 'theatre' isn't such a =  > >>good
 > >>translation, as it implies a performance.
 >
 > <snip>
 >
 > >If the meaning of theatre in English is not significantly changed,  > >translating 'Schauplatz der Funf Theil der Welt' as 'Threatre of the Five  > >Parts of the World' seems to me the best option.
 >
 > According to my etymological dictionary, Theatre comes from the Latin  > Theatrum, which on its turn comes from the Greek Theatron, and was derived  > from theaomai, = I watch with admiration. So I guess in this sense it was  > used for the Atlases and could be used in this way again, why not?
 >
 > But in daily life the word meant was it still means today. The Germans  > afraid of foreign influences in their language, just translated it. (No  > offence meant)
 >
 >
 > Henny (Lee Hae Kang)
 > -----------------------------

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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:50:24 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Ich Diene on Welsh county maps
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Dear all,

On six maps of Welsh counties in Blaeu's Atlas of England (Brecknockshire, Monmouthshire, Pembroke- & Carmarthenshires, Cardiganshire, Caernarvonshire & Anglesey, and Denbighshire & Flintshire) there is a (heraldic) symbol: a coronet with three feathers (ostrich plumes?), and a banderole with the motto 'Ich Diene' (German for 'I serve').
Does anyone know from what person/authority/of else this symbol stands? I have checked Fox-Davies' The Art of Heraldry.

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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From: "John Fazli" <jfazli@IX.NETCOM.COM>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ich Diene on Welsh county maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:28:43 -0500
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I sold an example of the Brecknockshire map the other day and wondered the same thing.

What I found was that the "Feather Badge" and the "Ich diene" (I serve) are the symbol and motto of the Prince of Wales.  Legend has it that the Black Prince, the eldest son of Edward III, was awarded a badge of ostrich feathers at the Battle of Crecy in 1346, and the symbol has been associated with the heir to the throne ever since.  The coat of arms for the Prince of Wales is also on the maps with motto from the Order of the Garter "Honi soit qui mal y pense" (Evil to him who evil thinks).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <peter@maphist.nl> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: [MapHist] Ich Diene on Welsh county maps


> Dear all,
>
> On six maps of Welsh counties in Blaeu's Atlas of England (Brecknockshire,
> Monmouthshire, Pembroke- & Carmarthenshires, Cardiganshire, Caernarvonshire
> & Anglesey, and Denbighshire & Flintshire) there is a (heraldic) symbol: a
> coronet with three feathers (ostrich plumes?), and a banderole with the
> motto 'Ich Diene' (German for 'I serve').
> Does anyone know from what person/authority/of else this symbol stands? I
> have checked Fox-Davies' The Art of Heraldry.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@maphist.nl
> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
> Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net/>
> Elementymology: <http://www.dsdelft.nl/~tneleme/>
> Columbus Monuments: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/columbus>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht
> List e-mail: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List-owner's e-mail: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl
> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl

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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:26:13 -0500
From: "Ed Reed" <ereed@BANK-BANQUE-CANADA.CA>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ich Diene on Welsh county maps
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Peter:

It is a one of the badges of the Prince of Wales, itself incorporating the badge of King John of Bohemia, who was captured by the first Prince of Wales at Crecy or, alternatively, Poitiers

Regards.

G. Edward Reed
ereed@bank-banque-canada.ca

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In the context in which it is being used, I would be inclined to translate "Schauplatz" as "Showcase." I know that's not what you will find in most dictionaries, but it seems to me it comes closest to capturing the meaning. The atlas is providing a place where one can view "the five parts of the world." 

George Crossman

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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:33:52 +0000
From: Ashley Baynton-Williams <Ashley.bw@BTINTERNET.COM>
Organization: MapForum.com
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Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ich Diene on Welsh county maps
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>
Peter&nbsp; van der Krogt wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>Does anyone know from what person/authority/of else this symbol stands? I&nbsp; have checked Fox-Davies' The Art of Heraldry.</pre> </blockquote>

<p><br>Peter, it is the arms and motto ('Ich Dien') of the Prince of Wales, heir to the crown.
<p>Ashley Baynton-Williams
<br>&nbsp;</html>

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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:59:17 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: SHD Web <sanderva@EROLS.COM>
Subject: [MapHist] Prize Essay Contest - Society for the History of Discoveries
Cc: c-urne@tc.umn.edu
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The Society for the History of Discoveries this year is holding its fifteenth annual prize essay contest.   ENTRIES ARE DUE BY MAY 1, 2002.  Founded in 1960, the purpose of the Society is to stimulate teaching, research and publishing in the history of geographical exploration. Essays are sought on the topics embraced by the Society's name: the history of discoveries. Essays may deal with voyages, travels, biography, history, cartography, techniques and technology, or other aspects of discovery. The primary purpose is to enlighten the reader on some aspect of mankind's exploration of the world.

ELIGIBILITY: A post-secondary (college or university) student from any part of the world who will not have received a doctoral degree before May 1, 2002 is eligible to enter the contest.

THE ESSAY: The essay shall be original and unpublished, in the English language and of no more than 6,000 words. A reasonable amount of illustrative and tabular material will be welcome. The essay shall be submitted in typescript, double-spaced and printed on one side of the paper.

DATES: Essays must be postmarked on or before May 1, 2002 and addressed to: Professor Carol Urness, SHD Prize Essay Contest, James Ford Bell Library, University of Minnesota, 309 19th Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55455, U.S.A.

E-Mail: c-urne@tc.umn.edu
Tel: (612) 788-6570
Fax: (612) 626-9353

Essays submitted will be evaluated by a panel of judges from the Society for the History of Discoveries. The panel's decision will be announced on or before June 15, 2002.

CRITERIA: Primary consideration will be given to the essay's originality and its contribution to new knowledge and insights. Other considerations will be the author's demonstration of the relevance of the subject, the cogency of the presentation and the documentation, and the literary quality of the essay. In the case of a tie, two awards may be given. If no essay is judged to be either appropriate or sufficiently meritorious, the right to make no award is reserved.

THE AWARD. The winner will receive a prize of $600. The winner will be invited to make an oral presentation about the paper at the annual meeting of the Society for the History of Discoveries. The next meeting will be held in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico on October 24  27, 2002.  Additionally, the essay will be considered for publication in the Society's journal, “Terrae Incognitae.”

Recent essay award winners and subjects include: Ken Mitchell,” Science, Giants and Gold: Juan de la Cruz Cano y Olmedilla's Map" (1998) Published in “Terrae Incognitae”: The Journal for the History of Discoveries (31:1999), pp. 25-41. Neil Safier, “Unveiling the Amazon to European Science and
Society: the Reading and Reception of La Condamine's Relation Abrégée d'un voyage fait dans l'Intérieur de l'Amérique méridionale (1745).” (1999) Published in “Terrae Incognitae” (33:2001). Paul W. Mapp, "French Reactions to the British Search for a Northwest Passage from Hudson Bay and the Origins of the Seven Years' War." (2000) Published in “Terrae Incognitae” (33:2001).

Please do not reply to the sender of this message.  Reply directly to c-urne@tc.umn.edu

Best Regards,

Carol Urness
E-Mail    c-urne@tc.umn.edu

Excuse Cross Posting

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