X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:40:51 +0200
From: Jipser <Jipser_acad_staff_hum_main_uct@mail.uct.ac.za>
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Hello,

As part of an exhibition of the mapping of Africa, the National Parliament of South Africa intends displaying an image of the mirror on the moon, representing the ancient belief that the features of the earth are reflected on the surface of the moon. While one such image has been found (in the Selenographia, Johannis Hevelli, 1647), the only copy of this volume is in such a poor condition that it is not possible to open it -- in fact, we have to enlist the aid of a restorationist just to be able to separate the pages of the book. I was therefore wondering whether there might be someone out there who knows of an electronic version of this particular map, or of other "moon maps" we could use. If the continent of Africa were clearly portrayed on this map, all the better.

I would appreciate any help that you could provide me with.

Thanks,
Jonathan Ipser
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:13:55 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Position Available: Curator, James Ford Bell Library,
  University of Minnesota
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
[This was sent to the wrong address (the list-owner's address instead of the list-address) and from a non-subscribed address. Peter]

>X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
>Reply-To: <b-alli@umn.edu>
>From: "Brent Allison" <b-alli@umn.edu>
>To: <MAPS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>, <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>,
>         <EXLIBRIS@LIBRARY.BERKELEY.EDU>
>Subject: Position Available: Curator, James Ford Bell Library, University 
>of Minnesota
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:37:05 -0600
>Organization: University of Minnesota
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
>Thread-Index: AcPpw++wYCT4j71RSHKWDQ5c5C99lQ==
>X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
>
>The University of Minnesota Libraries invites applications and nominations 
>for the
>position of Curator of the James Ford Bell Library, a world renowned 
>collection of rare
>books, maps, and manuscripts documenting relations between Europeans and non-
>European places and peoples in the period 1400 to 1800. The collection 
>focuses on the
>interplay of commercial, geographic, political, and religious contacts 
>between Europe and
>the rest of the world in this early period.
>
>Full description is at 
><http://www.lib.umn.edu/about/ul172.phtml>http://www.lib.umn.edu/about/ul172.phtml
>___________________________
>
>Brent Allison
>Director, John R. Borchert Map Library
>    and Interim Curator, James Ford Bell Library
>University of Minnesota
>Minneapolis MN 55455
>
>
><mailto:b-alli@umn.edu>b-alli@umn.edu
>http://map.lib.umn.edu
><http://bell.lib.umn.edu/>http://bell.lib.umn.edu
>612-624-0306 (in Borchert Map Library)
>612-624-6895 (in James Ford Bell Library)
>612-626-9353 (fax)
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: hunger@igor.urz.unibas.ch
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:39:06 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Dominik Hunger <Dominik.Hunger@unibas.ch>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear Mr Ipser

Since our library has got the Hevelius you are looking for, I could provide you with a copy or electronic version of the map. If you want, give me your e-mail adress to clear details

Dominik Hunger
Universitaetsbibliothek Basel
Handschriftenabteilung und Sondersammlungen

Schoenbeinstr. 18 - 21
CH - 4056 Basel

Tel. ++41 61 267 31 40
e-mail: Dominik.Hunger@unibas.ch







At 09:40 03.02.04 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>As part of an exhibition of the mapping of Africa, the National
>Parliament of South Africa intends displaying an image of the mirror on
>the moon, representing the ancient belief that the features of the earth
>are reflected on the surface of the moon. While one such image has been
>found (in the Selenographia, Johannis Hevelli, 1647), the only copy of
>this volume is in such a poor condition that it is not possible to open
>it -- in fact, we have to enlist the aid of a restorationist just to be
>able to separate the pages of the book. I was therefore wondering
>whether there might be someone out there who knows of an electronic
>version of this particular map, or of other "moon maps" we could use. If
>the continent of Africa were clearly portrayed on this map, all the
>better.
>
>I would appreciate any help that you could provide me with.
>
>Thanks,
>Jonathan Ipser
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:50:36 +0100
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
From: Mario <neve@alma.unibo.it>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-rich>Useful suggestions and references are to be found in: Philip J.
Stooke, "Mappaemundi and the Mirror in the Moon", <italic>Cartographica</italic>, XXIX/ 2, 1992, pp. 20-30 and J.
Baltrusaitis, <italic>Le miroir: révélations, science-fiction et fallacies</italic>, Paris: Seuil, 1979. The main ancient source is Plutarch, <italic>De facie quae in orbe lunae apparet</italic> [<italic>Concerning the face which appears in the orb of the moon</italic>] (920A-945D), transl. by H. Cherniss in <italic>Plutarch’s Moralia</italic>, ed. and transl. by H. Cherniss and W.C. Helmbold, vol. XII, The Loeb Classical Library, London and Cambridge (Mass.), Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1957, pp.
34-223.

I'm aware that these notes doesn't fully meet your needs, but anyway I hope that are of some interest.



Martedì, 3 feb 2004, alle 08:40 Europe/Rome, Jipser ha scritto:


<excerpt>Hello,


As part of an exhibition of the mapping of Africa, the National

Parliament of South Africa intends displaying an image of the mirror on

the moon, representing the ancient belief that the features of the earth

are reflected on the surface of the moon. While one such image has been

found (in the Selenographia, Johannis Hevelli, 1647), the only copy of

this volume is in such a poor condition that it is not possible to open

it -- in fact, we have to enlist the aid of a restorationist just to be

able to separate the pages of the book. I was therefore wondering

whether there might be someone out there who knows of an electronic

version of this particular map, or of other "moon maps" we could use.
If

the continent of Africa were clearly portrayed on this map, all the

better.


I would appreciate any help that you could provide me with.


Thanks,

Jonathan Ipser

_______________________________________________________________

MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography

hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.

The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of

the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of

Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for

the views of the author.

List Information: http://www.maphist.info



</excerpt><fontfamily><param>Humana Serif Md ITC TT</param>Mario Neve

Università di Bologna

Dipartimento di Storie e Metodi per la Conservazione dei Beni Culturali

1, via degli Ariani

48100 Ravenna - Italy

Tel +544-484786  Fax +544-484717</fontfamily>


</x-rich>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:10:49 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

   Many years ago, a Dutch publisher brought out a volume called - I believe (not able to check at the moment) - A HISTORY OF LUNAR CARTOGRAPHY which had illustrations.  Might be possible to digitize the images from the book.
Some of the more lavishly illustrated histories of astronomy in general may also include worthwhile images.  There is a website - again, I am unable to get it at the moment - on the moon, but not sure if it includes historical material.  If I can get Internet connections late, will send additional information.

   J. B. Post

----- Original Message -----
From: Jipser <Jipser_acad_staff_hum_main_uct@mail.uct.ac.za> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:40 AM Subject: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon


> Hello,
>
> As part of an exhibition of the mapping of Africa, the National
> Parliament of South Africa intends displaying an image of the mirror on
> the moon, representing the ancient belief that the features of the earth
> are reflected on the surface of the moon. While one such image has been
> found (in the Selenographia, Johannis Hevelli, 1647), the only copy of
> this volume is in such a poor condition that it is not possible to open
> it -- in fact, we have to enlist the aid of a restorationist just to be
> able to separate the pages of the book. I was therefore wondering
> whether there might be someone out there who knows of an electronic
> version of this particular map, or of other "moon maps" we could use. If
> the continent of Africa were clearly portrayed on this map, all the
> better.
>
> I would appreciate any help that you could provide me with.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan Ipser
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Gent van R.H." <R.H.vanGent@phys.uu.nl>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:13:00 +0100 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

J.B. Post wrote:

> Many years ago, a Dutch publisher brought out a volume 
> called - I believe (not able to check at the moment) - 
> A HISTORY OF LUNAR CARTOGRAPHY which had illustrations.

You are probably referring to:

  Zdene?k Kopal & Robert W. Carder, _Mapping of the Moon: 
  Past and Present_ (Reidel, Dordrecht/Boston, 1974 [=
  _Astrophysics and Space Science Library_, vol. 50]),
  viii+237 pp. - ISBN 90-277-0398-1.

A more recent book on this topic is:

  Ewen A. Whitaker, _Mapping and Naming the Moon: A 
  History of Lunar Cartography and Nomenclature_
  (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1999), 242 pp.
  ISBN 0-521-62248-4.

======================================================= * Robert H. van Gent                                  * * E-mail: r.h.vangent@astro.uu.nl                     * * Homepage: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/homepage.htm * ======================================================= _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:27:17 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>
<body>
<font size=3>At 08:10 AM 2/3/2004, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Many years ago, a Dutch publisher brought out a volume called - I believe<br> (not able to check at the moment) - A HISTORY OF LUNAR CARTOGRAPHY which had<br>
illustrations.&nbsp; Might be possible to digitize the images from the book.<br>
Some of the more lavishly illustrated histories of astronomy in general may<br>
also include worthwhile images.</font></blockquote><br><br> See: <br><br>
<div align="center"><font face="Verdana" size=2><b>Ewen A. Whitaker<br> </b></font><font size=3>&nbsp;
</font><a href="http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet//servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=253167386"><font face="Verdana" size=2 color="#006600"><b>Mapping and Naming the Moon A History of Lunar Cartography and Nomenclature<br> </a></b></font><font size=3>&nbsp;
</font><font face="Verdana" size=2>Cambridge University Press, 2003.
ISBN:0521544149 <br>
</font>&lt;<a href="http://books.cambridge.org/0521544149.htm" eudora="autourl">http://books.cambridge.org/0521544149.htm</a>&gt;<br><br> </div>
<font size=3>&nbsp;</font>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joel Kovarsky<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=3>Joel Kovarsky for THE PRIME MERIDIAN <br> 385 Thistle Trail, Danville, VA 24540 USA <br> Phone: 434/724-1106; Fax: 434/799-0218 <br> email:&nbsp; tpm@theprimemeridian.com <br> Website:
&lt;<a href="http://www.theprimemeridian.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.theprimemeridian.com</a>&gt; <br>
<i>&nbsp;&nbsp; Member, International Antiquarian Mapsellers Association<br>
</font></i></body>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] The Moon, but not sixpence 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:49:17 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; My apologies to the List for my faulty memory.&nbsp; Yes, the Kopal book is what I remembered, confusing the title with the announced, but never published by the publisher, A HISTORY OF MARTIAN CARTOGRAPHY.&nbsp; With my Internet connection working, I can concure with the titles MAPPING AND NAMING THE MOON (Cambridge U.P., 199) and THE MOON &amp; WESTERN IMAGINATION (U. of ARizona Press, 1999).&nbsp; The website I remembered - if I keyboard this correctly - is</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A href="http://www.lhl.lib.mo.us/events_exhib/exhibit/ex_face_moon.shtml">http://www.lhl.lib.mo.us/events_exhib/exhibit/ex_face_moon.shtml</A></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JBP</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:45:22 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
  Non-member submission from [pjstooke@uwo.ca]

Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mirror on the moon

My paper on the mirror in the moon (cited by another respondent) suggests that arabic maps by Al-Biruni and others are the best representations of this.  See also, if you are interested, Stooke, P.J.  The Mirror in the Moon. Sky and Telescope, 91 (3), 96-98, 1996, which includes a colour reproduction of the most compelling map of all, from the Bodleian Library.

Phil Stooke
University of Western Ontario


Quoting Jipser <Jipser_acad_staff_hum_main_uct@mail.uct.ac.za>:

 > Hello,
 >
 > As part of an exhibition of the mapping of Africa, the National  > Parliament of South Africa intends displaying an image of the mirror on  > the moon, representing the ancient belief that the features of the earth  > are reflected on the surface of the moon. While one such image has been  > found (in the Selenographia, Johannis Hevelli, 1647), the only copy of  > this volume is in such a poor condition that it is not possible to open  > it -- in fact, we have to enlist the aid of a restorationist just to be  > able to separate the pages of the book. I was therefore wondering  > whether there might be someone out there who knows of an electronic  > version of this particular map, or of other "moon maps" we could use. If  > the continent of Africa were clearly portrayed on this map, all the  > better.
 >
 > I would appreciate any help that you could provide me with.
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Jonathan Ipser
 > _______________________________________________________________  > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography  > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
 > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of  > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of  > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for  > the views of the author.
 > List Information: http://www.maphist.info  > 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: palsky@mailhost.univ-paris12.fr
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:54:42 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Palsky <palsky@univ-paris12.fr>
Subject: [MapHist] Cartography as a Discipline
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear Maphisters,
Apart from John Wolter's thesis (The Emerging Discipline of Cartography, 1975), I try to collect references about the building of cartography as an independent discipline of education and research in the XXth century, in order to have some points of comparison with the French case. Many chronological details are easy to find (foundation of societies, bulletins, congresses...). It is more difficult to find informations about the insertion of Cartography in universities cursus (and its framework : associated with geography or not ?), or the creation of specific research groups. I welcome bibliographic hints, as well as personal testimonies.
Thank you

Gilles

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: F.Herbert@RGS.org
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Cartography as a Discipline
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:47:19 -0000 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear Gilles,

Does this mean that I need not refer you to 'The history of cartography, volume 1' (Chicago ; London : University of Chicago Press, 1987) and J.
Brian Harley's chapter 1 'The map and the development of the history of cartography' on pp.1-42; especially its sub-sections 'The growth of a scholarly identity' (p.23 etc.) and 'The rise of cartography' (pp.30-31)?
There are (only!) 329 footnotes & references and, on pp.39-42, this chapter's 'Bibliography'.

If you'd like John Wolter's current e-mail address I can supply (unless he's looking in to this correspondence anyway?)

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org ; http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives']

-----Original Message-----
From: Palsky [mailto:palsky@univ-paris12.fr] Sent: 05 February 2004 14:55
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Cartography as a Discipline

Dear Maphisters,
Apart from John Wolter's thesis (The Emerging Discipline of Cartography, 1975), I try to collect references about the building of cartography as an independent discipline of education and research in the XXth century, in order to have some points of comparison with the French case. Many chronological details are easy to find (foundation of societies, bulletins, congresses...). It is more difficult to find informations about the insertion of Cartography in universities cursus (and its framework : associated with geography or not ?), or the creation of specific research groups. I welcome bibliographic hints, as well as personal testimonies.
Thank you

Gilles

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:27:51 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear all

I am working on a new publication on the Atlas maior by Joan Blaeu. Later this year you will hear more about this publication.
For now I need some help, suggestions etc.

In the text I want to make a reliable estimate on the time involved in the production of the four editions of this atlas (Latin, Dutch, French, and Spanish), more or less in the same way as Koeman did in his booklet accompanying the facsimile of the French edition in 1970 (C. Koeman, Joan Blaeu and his Grand Atlas. Amsterdam: Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, 1970; in this book pp. 43-46).

The major problem in this calculation is the number of copies made. Koeman assumed a relatively small impression of 300 copies in each edition and he did not take the Spanish edition is his calculations.

I tried to make a more reliable estimate of the impression using the figures of the copies in public libraries which I found with my inquiry in 1993. This inquiry was send to 2,500 libraries, mainly in Western Europe. 
Additional information for the USA came from the NUC, and further some other information is used.

The number of copies found are:

Latin  129
French  84
Dutch 59
Spanish 45

These numbers are thus the extant copies in the most important libries in Europe and USA (and some libraries in Canada and very few private collections).
Not included are
- most of the copies in private collections - the copies in other libraries
- the copies lost or destroyed by fire, floods, etc., during the last three centuries
- the copies took apart and sold as single maps

For my calculations I have estimated that the number of copies is 20 % of the total impression.
This results in an impression of:
650 copies of the Latin edition
400 French
300 Dutch
200 Spanish

Do you think that these figures are reasonable, too high (meaning that I have found more than 20% of the impression) or too low ('my' copies are less than 20%)?
Maybe it helps to take into consideration that these figures mean, that of the maps specially made for the edition (such as the world map), there are 650 copies printed with Latin text on verso. 129 copies are in known atlases, thus about 500 left (including those which are destroyed or still in 'unknown' atlases). Can anybody make a suggestion how many of Joan Blaeu's world maps with Latin text there still are as separate maps. How often such a map is for sale?

Suggestions, comments etc. are welcome

Peter






YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:56:43 -0500
From: Jeremy Pool <JeremyPool@comcast.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
To: peter@vanderkrogt.net
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)

<x-flowed>
Peter,

I have one suggestion that might provide a rough estimate, prompted by your last question of how often a Blaeu world map is put up for sale.  
If you accept Marcel van den Broeke's numbers for the number of copies of Ortelius atlases that were published, I think you could argue that since both Ortelius and Blaeu world maps are valued by collectors, that the frequency with which these maps appear on the market is in some rough proportion to their overall original numbers (since I can't think of any reason to expect one or the other to have a higher survival rate).  Though the Antique Map Price Record CD is not at all an exhaustive list of maps for sale, it is representative.  So in terms of proportions, one might make an estimate of the relative population of these maps.  So given the ratio of Ortelius folio world maps to Blaeu world maps in the AMPR database, one might estimate that this proportion matches the proportion of originally produced atlases, and since you have van den Broeke's number for Ortelius, you can then compute the corresponding number for Blaeu.

This is obviously a gross over-simplification (and it doesn't deal with the different language editions, though many of the AMPR entries do identify the language edition), but it is probably worth doing, just as another piece of evidence supporting whatever other metrics you come up with.  You have the AMPR CD I believe (I think I gave you a copy at the ICHC in Portland.)  I would do this little calculation myself, but I'm just about to head out the door to the airport, so I won't be able to get to it for a week or so.  If I haven't heard from you, I will try to do this when I get back home next week.

-- Jeremy

Peter van der Krogt wrote:

> Dear all
>
> I am working on a new publication on the Atlas maior by Joan Blaeu. 
> Later this year you will hear more about this publication.
> For now I need some help, suggestions etc.
>
> In the text I want to make a reliable estimate on the time involved in 
> the production of the four editions of this atlas (Latin, Dutch, 
> French, and Spanish), more or less in the same way as Koeman did in 
> his booklet accompanying the facsimile of the French edition in 1970 
> (C. Koeman, Joan Blaeu and his Grand Atlas. Amsterdam: Theatrum Orbis 
> Terrarum, 1970; in this book pp. 43-46).
>
> The major problem in this calculation is the number of copies made. 
> Koeman assumed a relatively small impression of 300 copies in each 
> edition and he did not take the Spanish edition is his calculations.
>
> I tried to make a more reliable estimate of the impression using the 
> figures of the copies in public libraries which I found with my 
> inquiry in 1993. This inquiry was send to 2,500 libraries, mainly in 
> Western Europe. Additional information for the USA came from the NUC, 
> and further some other information is used.
>
> The number of copies found are:
>
> Latin  129
> French  84
> Dutch 59
> Spanish 45
>
> These numbers are thus the extant copies in the most important libries 
> in Europe and USA (and some libraries in Canada and very few private 
> collections).
> Not included are
> - most of the copies in private collections
> - the copies in other libraries
> - the copies lost or destroyed by fire, floods, etc., during the last 
> three centuries
> - the copies took apart and sold as single maps
>
> For my calculations I have estimated that the number of copies is 20 % 
> of the total impression.
> This results in an impression of:
> 650 copies of the Latin edition
> 400 French
> 300 Dutch
> 200 Spanish
>
> Do you think that these figures are reasonable, too high (meaning that 
> I have found more than 20% of the impression) or too low ('my' copies 
> are less than 20%)?
> Maybe it helps to take into consideration that these figures mean, 
> that of the maps specially made for the edition (such as the world 
> map), there are 650 copies printed with Latin text on verso. 129 
> copies are in known atlases, thus about 500 left (including those 
> which are destroyed or still in 'unknown' atlases). Can anybody make a 
> suggestion how many of Joan Blaeu's world maps with Latin text there 
> still are as separate maps. How often such a map is for sale?
>
> Suggestions, comments etc. are welcome
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
> Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net>
> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net>
> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>


</x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Calendar 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:17:59 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; This has nothing directly to do with the history of cartography, but some lady librarians in the London area have posed for "For Reference Only: A Calendar of Camden Librarians, 2004."&nbsp; This seems to be the way the world is going so how long before <EM>Playboy </EM>does "The Girls of Cartography"?&nbsp; Certainly help the image of cartographic scholars.&nbsp; No, that way lies madness.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:16:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [MapHist] Call for Nominations: MAA Graduate Student Committee
From: "Johanna Ingrid Kramer" <jik4@cornell.edu>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2
Importance: Normal
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear List Members,

Please help spread the word about this opportunity for graduate students to get involved in the profession!

The Medieval Academy of America’s Graduate Student Committee is looking for graduate students to serve on the committee for a two-year term, 2004-2006.

The committee acts on behalf of graduate students in North America and overseas to voice their concerns and promote their participation within the Medieval Academy of America (MAA) and the broader academic community.
For more information on the committee and the medieval graduate student Med-Grad listserv, please see the Medieval Academy Website at http://www.medievalacademy.org, under "Graduate Students."  You do not have to be a member of the MAA to sign up for the listserv.

All graduate students interested in serving on the Graduate Student Committee, and who are be members of the MAA, are invited to nominate themselves. Please (re)introduce yourself to the med-grad listserv and send a brief statement, c.v., and the name of one reference as soon as possible to Richard K. Emmerson at RKE@MedievalAcademy.org. Indicate your university, discipline, and particular interest in contributing to the committee. We hope to represent a wide range of academic disciplines and geographic regions on the committee. Two graduate students will be appointed to the committee by the Council when it meets in Seattle in April 2004.


*Please bear with the cross-posting messenger*



******************************
Johanna Kramer
Ph.D. Candidate
Medieval Studies Program
259 Goldwin Smith Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
jik4@cornell.edu
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "YVETTE COHEN" <israel_and_yvettec@012.net.il>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Cc: "YVETTE COHEN" <israel_and_yvettec@012.net.il>
Subject: [MapHist] Calendar ==> Beauty and the History of Cartography
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 02:29:35 +0200
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>J. B. Post wrote: &gt;&gt; ...&nbsp;This has nothing directly to do with the history of cartography, but some lady librarians in the London area have posed for "For Reference Only: A Calendar of Camden Librarians, 2004."&nbsp; ... so how long before <EM>Playboy </EM>does "The Girls of Cartography"?&nbsp; Certainly help the image of cartographic scholars.&nbsp; No, that way lies madness. &lt;&lt;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>This actually has a lot to do with the history of cartography. The earliest known "maps" were anthropomorphic. Aphro-diety posed for&nbsp;an X-rated map of north Africa,&nbsp;approximately in the position described by Robert Frost in his poem "Birches". There is a </FONT><FONT face=Arial>connection with her lover Hermes at Sinai that gives a risque meaning to the phrase "lay of the land".</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her Gk kranion / Latin CRaniuM is&nbsp;reversed at Mo[n]RoCco. She is looking over her right shoulder into the Mediterranean.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Using 3 for the letter aiyin, her Semitic Sa3aR = hair is the SaHaRa desert.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The Atlas (mountains) =&nbsp;first vertebra that supports her skull. Now you know why Atlas supports the globe between his shoulders.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her Semitic PuNim = face was destroyed by Rome during the 3rd PuNic war.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>But her Semitic SaNTir = jaw is still there jutting out into the Mediterranean,&nbsp;reversed&nbsp;to TuNiS.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her Semitic LeB = heart is at LiBya.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her Semitic SHiDRa = spine, backbone is north of Libya at the Gulf of SiDRa.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her Semitic SHaD = breast is south of Libya at [T]CHaD.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her&nbsp;narrow (Semitic TSaR) waist is Hebrew MiTSRaim / Arabic MiSR. The Hebrew word for waist is MoSNaim.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her bean-shaped kidney (from Semitic QiTNios = beans) was the biblical gimel-shin-nun GoSHeN at the Nile delta. Giving the&nbsp;gimel a K-sound as in GaMaL = camel and the ancient shin a T-sound as in SHoR = TauRus, GoSHeN sounded like QoTeN. Arabic QuTN / Latin Gossypium = cotton was exported from Goshen. Compare English gossamer = cotton-like.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her liver (ancGreek hepato-) was eGyPT. Compare English hepatitis / Russian gepatit = disease of the liver. Gypsies (Roma) came from another liver: GuPTa in northern India.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her left side (Semitic TSaD) is at Sudan.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her left (Semitic S'MoL) leg is at SoMaLia.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Her (Greek) urethra is Eritrea. It empties into the (menstruously) Red Sea (Latin Mare Rubrum). The Hebrew name for this "body of water" is yam SooF = reed sea, a euphemistic reversal of Hebrew yam&nbsp;PoS (a female body part that bleeds once/month).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>The southern entrance to the Red Sea is Bab-el-MaNDeb, where MND may represent yaM NiDah = sea of menstruous woman.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>In Hebrew, Sinai is spelled samekh-yod-nun-yod. An aleph is missing. Adding the aleph with its ancient ght/CHS sound produces SiNa[CHS]i or "snatch", the reversal of Hebrew&nbsp;K'NiSah = entrance (to her body). 
[Compare Hebrew bet-aleph = come, come in with BaCCHuS, the Greek god of wine and fertility.] </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sinai contains the desert of tZiN,&nbsp;a euphemism for Hebrew ZaYiN = weapon; male member. This member belongs to Hermes (whose body stretches from his cranium in the Ukraine to his right (Semitic Y'MiN) foot in Yemen... but that's another story). See these&nbsp;URLs for data about the desert of Zin and wilderness of Sin:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><A 
href="http://servus.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/mad/discussion/137discuss.html"><FONT face=Arial>http://servus.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/mad/discussion/137discuss.html</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><A 
href="http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:gZ7QQ31ayJ8J:www.newadvent.org/cathen/04749a.htm+Sin+Zin+desert&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8"><FONT face=Arial>http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:gZ7QQ31ayJ8J:www.newadvent.org/cathen/04749a.htm+Sin+Zin+desert&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I suspect the Calendar of Camden Librarians is quite tame by comparison.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Join the BPMaps discussion group.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Israel "izzy" Cohen, BPMaps moderator<BR></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><U><A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BPMaps" eudora="autourl"><FONT face=Arial 
size=3>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BPMaps<BR></FONT></A></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=3><A 
href="mailto:israel_and_yvettec@012.net.il">israel_and_yvettec@012.net.il</A></FONT></U></DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Nick Millea <nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk>
To: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk
Subject: [MapHist] The Oxford Seminars in Cartography
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:37:10 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43)
X-Authentication: none
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

[Apologies for cross-posting]

Dear All,

Announcing the programme for the forthcoming gatherings of The Oxford Seminars in Cartography ................

THE OXFORD SEMINARS IN CARTOGRAPHY
2003-2004


4 March 2004
'Evolving from the classics: the geography and cartography of Sebastian Munster'
Margaret Small (National Maritime Museum)

6 May 2004
TOSCA field trip - visit to the History of Science Museum, Oxford - contact the undersigned for more information - numbers restricted

17 June 2004
'Mercator: the first modern scientific cartographer' Nick Crane (Writer and broadcaster)

All seminars commence at 5pm at the School of Geography and the Environment, Mansfield Road, Oxford

The Oxford Seminars in Cartography are supported by the Friends of TOSCA, ESRI (UK) Ltd, Oxford Cartographers, and the School of Geography and the Environment, University of Oxford

For further details, please contact:
_______________________________________________________

Nick Millea
Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG tel       : 01865 287119
fax      : 01865 277139
email : nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk

homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ ________________________________________________________



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:39:41 -0800
Subject: [MapHist] Elizabeth Bishop (February 8)
From: Penny L.Richards <turley2@earthlink.net>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.543)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Today is the birthday of American poet Elizabeth Bishop (1911-1979), who had a particular interest in cartographic themes....

Here's "The Map" by Elizabeth Bishop...
http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Elizabeth_Bishop/65


Penny L. Richards PhD
Research Scholar, UCLA Center for the Study of Women Co-editor, H-Education and H-Disability turley2@earthlink.net

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Institutions 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:37:20 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The January 2004 issue of <EM>Library Resources &amp; Technical Services </EM>on pp. 26-33 has the article "Collection Development and Maintenance across Libraries, Archives, and Museums" which may be of interest to those on MapHist whose institution is any of those mentioned.&nbsp; Often not specific and speaking in generalities, it's still worth a glance.&nbsp; There is some discussion of defining boundaries, but, as we have seen in past attempts, however clearly areas are defined, the actual materials are so versatile and multi-faceted, that institutions will still compete for said items for different reasons.&nbsp; And maps are mighty versatile, serving many needs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Many years ago when I was a map librarian, I was asked to speak on maps to a regional archives group.&nbsp; Years later when I was a print &amp; photograph librarian, I was asked by this same group to speak on photographs.&nbsp; While I always knew it subliminally, it was very apparent then that certain materials - maps, music, and photographs are only the most obvious - certain formats, are so powerful that they transcend the accident of the nature of the institution.&nbsp; The map librarian, the cartographic archivist, and the museum curator of cartographic artifacts have more - or at least as much - in common with each other as with associates within the same institution.&nbsp; Rare is the institution with more than a single map professional, whatever the title.&nbsp; There is something called the "trapper syndrom" which is common with writers and others in solitary occupations; a shared solitary experience.&nbsp; One is doing it alone, but there are others doing it as well.&nbsp; When they get together, they get drunk and swap tales.&nbsp; At such gatherings are others who understand, who can appreciate, the experience because they are also doing it essentially alone.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, that's the thought for the day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J. B. Post </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Ottomantom@cs.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:29:29 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 8001
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Dear Peter,<BR> While you are compiling lots of information about Blaeu's Atlas maior, I thought I mention a small bit of information I have recently learned about the elegant Latin edition in eleven volumes given to the sultan of the Ottoman Empire. One volume is in the library of Topkapi Palace. In 1984 while working in the Military Museum in Istanbul a private soldier who was cleaning up showed me a cupboard that included nine of the volumes and some other old European atlases. (A wonderful surprise showing that it is useful to chat with those who clean.) Last month I was looking over the rather new publication of the maps in the Naval Museum in Istanbul and found the last of the eleven volumes.&nbsp; (And that is a lot of words about a small bit of information.)<BR> Tom Goodrich</FONT></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:02:20 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
This message had an attachment which is not allowed for MapHist. James, could you send the attachment to my private address, peter@vanderkrogt.net ? When the message with attachments is bounced to me by the Majordomo program, it is in a unreadable form. Peter

From: "James Speed Hensinger" <jhensinger2@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:42:53 -0700

Peter,

I have two thoughts that might help.

I'm interested in the size of the print runs of John Speed's atlases.
I recently used the CD-ROM version of the "Antique Map Price Record" to do some approximations.  Although Jeremy Poole the creator of the CD-ROM hadn't anticipated my way of using it, he and I have since had extensive e-mail correspondence about it.  I searched the CD-ROM for John Speed and generated 1,125 listings.  By changing the printer driver on my Windows PC, I was able to "print" the one line listings to a file.  I edited the file using Textpad, which is an editor used by programmers, and cleaned up many of  the inconsistencies in the date field.  After a couple of hours of work, I was able to get the data into a format that I could import into Excel (a spreadsheet program).  I was then able to sort by date, title, etc. and do counts, and subtotals.  What I ended up with was a statistical breakdown of the sales of John Speed maps by the "significant" sales houses for the past twenty years.  The data is very subject to interpretation. But it is interesting.  I'm attaching a copy.  If you're not familiar with Excel, but do know how to open the file in Excel, let me know and I'll provide some hints about how to manipulate the data.

The second idea, is to search OCLC's Worldcat for Blaeu.  The NUC is 50 years out of date, and the modern equivalent is Worldcat, which contains 52,000,000 records.  The NUC is not completely duplicated within Worldcat (check with your university library).  Many libraries have never retrospectively converted their oldest paper records.  This is particularly true of rare book collections.  I did a quick search on Blaeu, and found over 600 records.

Do you have any resources that might help me learn more about Speed's print runs?

Jim

James Speed Hensinger
jhensinger@comcast.net
Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/
            _
           ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign
            X  against HTML e-mail
           / \

. -----Original Message-----
. From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
. [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Peter van der Krogt
. Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:28 AM . To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
. Subject: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
.
. Dear all
.
. I am working on a new publication on the Atlas maior by Joan . Blaeu. Later this year you will hear more about this publication.
. For now I need some help, suggestions etc.
.
. In the text I want to make a reliable estimate on the time . involved in the production of the four editions of this atlas . (Latin, Dutch, French, and Spanish), more or less in the same . way as Koeman did in his booklet accompanying the facsimile . of the French edition in 1970 (C. Koeman, Joan Blaeu and his . Grand Atlas. Amsterdam: Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, 1970; in . this book pp. 43-46).
.
. The major problem in this calculation is the number of copies . made. Koeman assumed a relatively small impression of 300 . copies in each edition and he did not take the Spanish . edition is his calculations.
.
. I tried to make a more reliable estimate of the impression . using the figures of the copies in public libraries which I . found with my inquiry in 1993. This inquiry was send to 2,500 . libraries, mainly in Western Europe.
. Additional information for the USA came from the NUC, and . further some other information is used.
.
. The number of copies found are:
.
. Latin  129
. French  84
. Dutch 59
. Spanish 45
.
. These numbers are thus the extant copies in the most . important libries in Europe and USA (and some libraries in . Canada and very few private collections).
. Not included are
. - most of the copies in private collections . - the copies in other libraries
. - the copies lost or destroyed by fire, floods, etc., during . the last three centuries
. - the copies took apart and sold as single maps .
. For my calculations I have estimated that the number of . copies is 20 % of the total impression.
. This results in an impression of:
. 650 copies of the Latin edition
. 400 French
. 300 Dutch
. 200 Spanish
.
. Do you think that these figures are reasonable, too high . (meaning that I have found more than 20% of the impression) . or too low ('my' copies are less than 20%)?
. Maybe it helps to take into consideration that these figures . mean, that of the maps specially made for the edition (such . as the world map), there are 650 copies printed with Latin . text on verso. 129 copies are in known atlases, thus about . 500 left (including those which are destroyed or still in . 'unknown' atlases). Can anybody make a suggestion how many of . Joan Blaeu's world maps with Latin text there still are as . separate maps. How often such a map is for sale?
.
. Suggestions, comments etc. are welcome .
. Peter
.


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:12:10 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
James

Thanks, I hope you will send me the attachment privately. If other MapHisters are interested I will put it on the MapHist website for downloading.

At 09:02 10-2-2004, you wrote:

>The second idea, is to search OCLC's Worldcat for Blaeu.  .... I did a 
>quick search
>on Blaeu, and found over 600 records.

At this moment I am not searching for more copies of Blaeu Atlases. My own database includes over 1,000 Blaeu atlases, on the basis of which I made the second volume of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici, published 2000.
But, Worldcat seems interesting for the rest of the research. Thanks for the tip - do you have the url?

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Gent van R.H." <R.H.vanGent@phys.uu.nl>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:02:55 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at phys.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Ottomantom@cs.com wrote:

> While you are compiling lots of information 
> about Blaeu's Atlas maior, I thought I mention 
> a small bit of information I have recently learned 
> about the elegant Latin edition in eleven volumes 
> given to the sultan of the Ottoman Empire. One 
> volume is in the library of Topkapi Palace. In 1984 
> while working in the Military Museum in Istanbul a 
> private soldier who was cleaning up showed me a 
> cupboard that included nine of the volumes and some 
> other old European atlases. (A wonderful surprise 
> showing that it is useful to chat with those who 
> clean.) Last month I was looking over the rather 
> new publication of the maps in the Naval Museum in 
> Istanbul and found the last of the eleven volumes.
> (And that is a lot of words about a small bit of 
> information.) 
 
Dear Tom,

Was one of the "other old European atlases" that you saw perhaps a copy of the "Harmonia Macrocosmica" of Andreas Cellarius? I have always understood that the set of Blaeu atlases presented to the sultan included this atlas.

Best wishes,

======================================================= * Robert H. van Gent                                  * * E-mail: r.h.vangent@astro.uu.nl                     * * Homepage: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/homepage.htm * =======================================================
   
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Barber, Peter" <Peter.Barber@bl.uk>
To: "Maphist (E-mail)" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>,
	"lis-Maps (E-mail)" <lis-maps@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>,
	"'maps-l@listserv.uga.edu'" <maps-l@listserv.uga.edu>,
	"'urbgeog-request@listserv.arizona.edu'" <urbgeog-request@listserv.arizona.edu>,
	"'Libergdc-dg@nls.uk'" <Libergdc-dg@nls.uk>
Subject: [MapHist] Helen Wallis Fellowship: invitation to applicants
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:24:49 -0000
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

[Please excuse multiple posting of this announcement]

THE HELEN WALLIS FELLOWSHIP AT THE BRITISH LIBRARY

CLOSING DATE:1 MAY 2004

This annual, named fellowship offers a convenient and unusually privileged working environment in the British Library.  The Fellow will be treated like a member of staff (i.e. not restricted to reading room hours) and provided with their own work-station, with an e-mail account and access to the Internet.  In addition, they will be entitled to £300 to spend on Library services.

 The award honours the memory of the former Map Librarian at the British Museum and then British Library, Dr Helen wallis OBE (1967-1986) and confers recognition by the Library on a scholar, from any field, whose work will help promote the extended and complementary use of the British Library's book and cartographic collections in historical investigation. 

Preference will be given to proposals that relate to the Library's collections and have an international dimension.  The fellowship may be held as a full or part-time appointment, and would normally be for 6-12 months.

For the full terms of reference please contact the undersigned.

It would be most helpful if you told us where you saw this notice.

peter.barber@bl.uk


Peter Barber
Head of Map Collections
Map Library
The British Library
96 Euston Road
London NW1 2DB

  




Fellowship details

There will be an annual award.  The fellowship may be held as a full or part-time appointment, but would normally be for one or two periods, totalling a minimum of 6 months.  The maximum period will be one calendar year. 


The fellow will not be restricted to reading room hours and will be able to order material from the collection and access databases on the same basis as staff members.

There may be an opportunity for the fellow to deliver a public lecture in the British Library on their research project. 

A trust fund set up for this purpose has attracted donations from friends, former colleagues and admirers of Helen Wallis from all parts of the world.
A sum of £300 will be made available to the fellow to be spent in the British Library, on photographs, books, or any other charged service. This award could usefully overlap with other forms of support.


Applications

Please submit a letter of application, indicating the period you intend to be in London and outlining your proposed research project, together with a full curriculum vitae and the names of three referees to:  Map Librarian, The British Library, 96 Euston Road, London NW1 2DB, UK.  The closing date for each annual award will be May 1st.



Helen Wallis

Dr Helen Wallis OBE (1924-95) was Map Librarian at the British Museum and then British Library for 19 years (1967-86) but her reputation rests as much on her prolific scholarly output and on the range of learned and professional organisations in which she played so active a part.

Helen Wallis's historical interests were diverse, including geographical globes; the mapping of voyages and colonial settlement, particularly in North America and Australia; the supposedly 15th century Vinland Map; the Jesuit mapping of China; and thematic mapping of the last century.  Over and above these specific topics, her work was characterised by two qualities.
Firstly, as a geographically-trained historian, it seemed natural to her to reach across disciplinary boundaries, especially those that had traditionally separated the studies of maps and texts.  She showed historians how they had neglected vital evidence of a non-geographic kind on maps, and she taught map historians the value of related textual sources.
Secondly, she was a gifted communicator, whose enthusiasm for each of her many and varied interests showed through so clearly in her lectures, publications and broadcasts.
It confers recognition by the Library on a scholar, from any field, whose work will help promote the extended and complementary use of the British Library's book and cartographic collections in historical investigation.  An international dimension would be an advantage.  Applicants will therefore be expected to refer, in appropriate detail, to the classes of material they intend to consult.  They are also invited to demonstrate the ways in which their research would subsequently be disseminated.


Fellowship details

There will be an annual award.  The fellowship may be held as a full or part-time appointment, but would normally be for one or two periods, totalling a minimum of 6 months.  The maximum period will be one calendar year. 

The fellow will be treated like a member of staff and provided with their own work-station, with an e-mail account and access to the Internet.

The fellow will not be restricted to reading room hours and will be able to order material from the collection and access databases on the same basis as staff members.

There may be an opportunity for the fellow to deliver a public lecture in the British Library on their research project. 

A trust fund set up for this purpose has attracted donations from friends, former colleagues and admirers of Helen Wallis from all parts of the world.
A sum of £300 will be made available to the fellow to be spent in the British Library, on photographs, books, or any other charged service. This award could usefully overlap with other forms of support.


Applications

Please submit a letter of application, indicating the period you intend to be in London and outlining your proposed research project, together with a full curriculum vitae and the names of three referees to:  Map Librarian, The British Library, 96 Euston Road, London NW1 2DB, UK.  The closing date for each annual award will be May 1st.



Helen Wallis

Dr Helen Wallis OBE (1924-95) was Map Librarian at the British Museum and then British Library for 19 years (1967-86) but her reputation rests as much on her prolific scholarly output and on the range of learned and professional organisations in which she played so active a part.

Helen Wallis's historical interests were diverse, including geographical globes; the mapping of voyages and colonial settlement, particularly in North America and Australia; the supposedly 15th century Vinland Map; the Jesuit mapping of China; and thematic mapping of the last century.  Over and above these specific topics, her work was characterised by two qualities.
Firstly, as a geographically-trained historian, it seemed natural to her to reach across disciplinary boundaries, especially those that had traditionally separated the studies of maps and texts.  She showed historians how they had neglected vital evidence of a non-geographic kind on maps, and she taught map historians the value of related textual sources.
Secondly, she was a gifted communicator, whose enthusiasm for each of her many and varied interests showed through so clearly in her lectures, publications and broadcasts.


*********************************************************************** Peter Barber MA, FSA, FRHistS
Map Librarian
Map Library
The British Library
96 Euston Road
London NW1 2DB

tel.: [44] 020 7412 7701
fax: [44] 020 7412 7780

***********************************************************************



**************************************************************************

Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk 

Adopt a Book this season ! Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge.  www.bl.uk/adoptabook 

*************************************************************************

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the postmaster@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. 

The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. 

************************************************************************* 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: vladimir@brezza.iuav.it
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:22:56 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: vladimiro valerio <vladimir@iuav.it>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I am interested in receiving the attachment.

Vladimiro


At 09.12 10/02/04 +0100, you wrote:
>James
>
>Thanks, I hope you will send me the attachment privately. If other 
>MapHisters are interested I will put it on the MapHist website for downloading.
>
>At 09:02 10-2-2004, you wrote:
>
>>The second idea, is to search OCLC's Worldcat for Blaeu.  .... I did a 
>>quick search
>>on Blaeu, and found over 600 records.
>
>At this moment I am not searching for more copies of Blaeu Atlases. My own 
>database includes over 1,000 Blaeu atlases, on the basis of which I made 
>the second volume of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici, published 2000.
>But, Worldcat seems interesting for the rest of the research. Thanks for 
>the tip - do you have the url?
>
>Peter
>
>
>
>YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>Dr Peter van der Krogt
>Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
>Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht
>P.O. Box 80.115
>3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
>e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
>Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
>MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
>Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net>
>Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net>
>Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>
>
>YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
>
cdsaf e3 
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Harold Cramer" <cramerhj@bellatlantic.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Pennsylvania mapping
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:03:04 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [151.201.32.194] at Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:02:48 -0600
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Hello:

The website Historical Maps of Pennsylvania, www.mapsofpa.com, now has an Articles section for notes and articles on Pennsylvania mapping.
Contributions are welcome.

Yours truly,
Harold Cramer

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: [24.118.225.113]
X-Originating-Email: [m_zalar@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: m_zalar@hotmail.com
From: "michael zalar" <m_zalar@hotmail.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:01:46 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2004 19:01:47.0262 (UTC) FILETIME=[54FA99E0:01C3F008]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
As a bit of whimsy regarding Blaeu, I have a reproduction of some parts of his atlas sitting on a lecturn, open to a two page map of Scicily  I also have a magnifying glass attached to the lecturn, the mettalic snake curving out over the book so the glass is suspendied over the page.  By chance, the glass looks down on an illustration of an erupting Mt Etna, pulling just that one particular piece out to the eye.  The entirety of it, map and etna, provide a wonderful display.



Michael A. Zalar
1191 Hancock Ave
St. Paul, MN 55106

651-330-2514
m_zalar@hotmail.com

www.krs1362.cjb.net

_________________________________________________________________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:35:27 -0900
From: Dee Longenbaugh <deelong@alaska.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] A quick tip
X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
If those sending along URLs would realize that typing in http:// before the Web site will make it interactive on e-mail, it would save time for those who want to visit the site.
	Thanks!
	Dee
-- 
  The Observatory, ABAA
200 North Franklin Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
907/586-9676
fax 907/586-9606
deelong@alaska.com
http://www.observatorybooks.com
Since 1977
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Al Magary" <al@magary.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] A quick tip
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:28:04 -0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

> If those sending along URLs would realize that typing in http://
> before the Web site will make it interactive on e-mail, it would
> save time for those who want to visit the site.

And I'd add that for really long URLs, go to one of these free sites and get a very short, reasonably durable version of it for emails:

--TinyURL:  http://tinyurl.com

--Make a Shorter Link:  http://www.makeashorterlink.com/

--SnipURL:  http://snipurl.com/

With TinyURL you can drag an icon up to your MSIE toolbar (to the Links section).  Then, anytime you're on a webpage you want to get a shorter URL for, click on the link and automatically generate a tiny-ized link that goes onto your clipboard, all ready for pasting.

These URLs aren't stable enough for bibliographic citation purposes but are certainly useful in passing along website info via email.

Cheers,
Al Magary

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Archives & libraries 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:18:03 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Last evening at the meeting of the Philobiblon Club, Philadelphia's book collecting society (once described as composed of rich collectors and poor librarians), Jennifer Milligan (of Harvard) spoke on the conflict between archives and libraries in 19th century France over which does what in respect to France's cultural heritage.&nbsp; Her talk did not touch upon maps, but privately she noted the talk was a summary of her research and several aspects were not covered in it.&nbsp; There wasn't much time for more than that brief exchange.&nbsp; Perhaps the history of the custodianship of maps is more a topic for the history of librarianship than for the history of cartography itself, but it belongs somewhere.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JBP </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Valentine's Day 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:05:25 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I have a friend who finds it amusing that 14 February is not only St. Valentine's Day, but the birth anniversary of Thomas Malthus.&nbsp; For map folk, however, would it be a good day to share observations on heart-shaped maps?&nbsp; The cordiform map has a long history attached to it.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Among my cartifacts&nbsp;is a spoon rest in a heart shape with a "love" map on it.&nbsp; There is also a refrigerator magnet reproducing the US Post Office heart-shaped stamp.&nbsp; There was a legal case involving the stamp when the Post Ofice - actually the entire US government - was sued in the case of Robert Steven Meade v. The United States, U.S. Court of Federal Calims December 23, 1992.&nbsp; A description of the case can be found in&nbsp;1993<EM> Copyright Law Decisions </EM>27,034 (p.26,073).<EM> </EM>The Court ruled that&nbsp;the mere cordiform image was not a copyrightable feature of a map. </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JBP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:09:17 -0500
From: Jeremy Pool <JeremyPool@comcast.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
To: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)

<x-flowed>
Peter,

I think you are quite right that the AMPR data are not fit to be used in this way for any kind of reliable estimate.  But I do suspect that the calculation made with regard to the world maps might at least provide a roughly useful estimate.  This is because the world maps seem to be of universal interest as collectible items, and that dealers will tend to list these if they have them for sale.  Any regional map (including the Americas) will not appear as reliably in a dealer's catalgue, even if in the dealer's stock, if the focus of interest in the catalogue is not on that particular area.  Though this objection would obviously apply to Ortelius as well as Blaeu - so you might guess that the omissions cancel one another out - I think the real result is just more erratic sampling, and therefore less reliable data for making sensible estimations.

In any case, your calculations with respect to the world maps (1230, compared to your estimate of 1550), is certainly within the same order of magnitude.  I would certainly trust your estimate over the calculation made from the AMPR data, but at least the AMPR data don't come up with some number that suggests that your estimate is badly off.

-- Jeremy

Peter van der Krogt wrote:

> Jeremy
>
> Good idea. I tried some out
>
> Ortelius world map (three editions, Van den Broecke 1, 2 and 3), total 
> printed 6950 copies, in AMPR 90, that is 1,3 %.
> Joan Blaeu's world map is 16 times in the AMPR, assuming this is also 
> 1.3 % gives a total printed copies of 1230 (my estimate was 1550).
>
> However, when I check America the Ortelius figures (VdB 9, 10, and 11) 
> is 107 copies in AMPR is 1.4 % of the total printed copies of 7325.
> The AMPR gives 63 copies of the Blaeu map of America, and only with 8 
> of them an Atlas Maior date is given, calculation: less than 600 
> copies made.
>
> Maps of smaller regions give completely different amounts. For 
> instance, Germany, 8 of the 5350 Ortelius listed in AMPR, only 0.15 %. 
> Of the Blaeu map only 2 appear in the AMPR. With these small numbers 
> no reliable calculation can be made.
>
> I am afraid the AMPR data are not fit to be used this way.
> Other ideas?
>
>
> Peter
>
> At 14:56 6-2-2004, you wrote:
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I have one suggestion that might provide a rough estimate, prompted 
>> by your last question of how often a Blaeu world map is put up for sale.
>> If you accept Marcel van den Broeke's numbers for the number of 
>> copies of Ortelius atlases that were published, I think you could 
>> argue that since both Ortelius and Blaeu world maps are valued by 
>> collectors, that the frequency with which these maps appear on the 
>> market is in some rough proportion to their overall original numbers 
>> (since I can't think of any reason to expect one or the other to have 
>> a higher survival rate).  Though the Antique Map Price Record CD is 
>> not at all an exhaustive list of maps for sale, it is 
>> representative.  So in terms of proportions, one might make an 
>> estimate of the relative population of these maps.  So given the 
>> ratio of Ortelius folio world maps to Blaeu world maps in the AMPR 
>> database, one might estimate that this proportion matches the 
>> proportion of originally produced atlases, and since you have van den 
>> Broeke's number for Ortelius, you can then compute the corresponding 
>> number for Blaeu.
>>
>> This is obviously a gross over-simplification (and it doesn't deal 
>> with the different language editions, though many of the AMPR entries 
>> do identify the language edition), but it is probably worth doing, 
>> just as another piece of evidence supporting whatever other metrics 
>> you come up with.  You have the AMPR CD I believe (I think I gave you 
>> a copy at the ICHC in Portland.)  I would do this little calculation 
>> myself, but I'm just about to head out the door to the airport, so I 
>> won't be able to get to it for a week or so.  If I haven't heard from 
>> you, I will try to do this when I get back home next week.
>>
>> -- Jeremy
>>
>> Peter van der Krogt wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>> I am working on a new publication on the Atlas maior by Joan Blaeu. 
>>> Later this year you will hear more about this publication.
>>> For now I need some help, suggestions etc.
>>>
>>> In the text I want to make a reliable estimate on the time involved 
>>> in the production of the four editions of this atlas (Latin, Dutch, 
>>> French, and Spanish), more or less in the same way as Koeman did in 
>>> his booklet accompanying the facsimile of the French edition in 1970 
>>> (C. Koeman, Joan Blaeu and his Grand Atlas. Amsterdam: Theatrum 
>>> Orbis Terrarum, 1970; in this book pp. 43-46).
>>>
>>> The major problem in this calculation is the number of copies made. 
>>> Koeman assumed a relatively small impression of 300 copies in each 
>>> edition and he did not take the Spanish edition is his calculations.
>>>
>>> I tried to make a more reliable estimate of the impression using the 
>>> figures of the copies in public libraries which I found with my 
>>> inquiry in 1993. This inquiry was send to 2,500 libraries, mainly in 
>>> Western Europe. Additional information for the USA came from the 
>>> NUC, and further some other information is used.
>>>
>>> The number of copies found are:
>>>
>>> Latin  129
>>> French  84
>>> Dutch 59
>>> Spanish 45
>>>
>>> These numbers are thus the extant copies in the most important 
>>> libries in Europe and USA (and some libraries in Canada and very few 
>>> private collections).
>>> Not included are
>>> - most of the copies in private collections
>>> - the copies in other libraries
>>> - the copies lost or destroyed by fire, floods, etc., during the 
>>> last three centuries
>>> - the copies took apart and sold as single maps
>>>
>>> For my calculations I have estimated that the number of copies is 20 
>>> % of the total impression.
>>> This results in an impression of:
>>> 650 copies of the Latin edition
>>> 400 French
>>> 300 Dutch
>>> 200 Spanish
>>>
>>> Do you think that these figures are reasonable, too high (meaning 
>>> that I have found more than 20% of the impression) or too low ('my' 
>>> copies are less than 20%)?
>>> Maybe it helps to take into consideration that these figures mean, 
>>> that of the maps specially made for the edition (such as the world 
>>> map), there are 650 copies printed with Latin text on verso. 129 
>>> copies are in known atlases, thus about 500 left (including those 
>>> which are destroyed or still in 'unknown' atlases). Can anybody make 
>>> a suggestion how many of Joan Blaeu's world maps with Latin text 
>>> there still are as separate maps. How often such a map is for sale?
>>>
>>> Suggestions, comments etc. are welcome
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>> Dr Peter van der Krogt
>>> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
>>> Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht
>>> P.O. Box 80.115
>>> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
>>> e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
>>> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
>>> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
>>> Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net>
>>> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net>
>>> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>
>>>
>>> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>> _______________________________________________________________
>>> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>>> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
>>> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>>> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>>> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>>> the views of the author.
>>> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>>
>>
>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> Dr Peter van der Krogt
> Map Historian, Explokart Research Program
> Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht
> P.O. Box 80.115
> 3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
> e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
> Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt>
> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
> Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net>
> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net>
> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>


</x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:13:08 -0500
From: Jeremy Pool <JeremyPool@comcast.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
It may be worth mentioning that thanks to the requests of James and others, the Volume 19 edition of the Antique Map Price Record CD-ROM (to be published in April) will include the ability to export data to Excel (or to a flat file).  This should allow anybody to easily perform the kinds of statistical analyses that James describes, without having to go through the rather painful steps that he describes performing in order to get the desired data into Excel.  The export capability also allows the "cleaning up" of dates, so that the date field can be treated as a numerical value for purposes of statistical computation.

-- Jeremy Pool

>
> From: "James Speed Hensinger" <jhensinger2@comcast.net>
> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:42:53 -0700
>
> Peter,
>
> I have two thoughts that might help.
>
> I'm interested in the size of the print runs of John Speed's atlases.
> I recently used the CD-ROM version of the "Antique Map Price Record"
> to do some approximations.  Although Jeremy Poole the creator of the
> CD-ROM hadn't anticipated my way of using it, he and I have since had
> extensive e-mail correspondence about it.  I searched the CD-ROM for
> John Speed and generated 1,125 listings.  By changing the printer
> driver on my Windows PC, I was able to "print" the one line listings
> to a file.  I edited the file using Textpad, which is an editor used
> by programmers, and cleaned up many of  the inconsistencies in the
> date field.  After a couple of hours of work, I was able to get the
> data into a format that I could import into Excel (a spreadsheet
> program).  I was then able to sort by date, title, etc. and do counts,
> and subtotals.  What I ended up with was a statistical breakdown of
> the sales of John Speed maps by the "significant" sales houses for the
> past twenty years.  The data is very subject to interpretation. But it
> is interesting.  I'm attaching a copy.  If you're not familiar with
> Excel, but do know how to open the file in Excel, let me know and I'll
> provide some hints about how to manipulate the data.
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "James Speed Hensinger" <jhensinger2@comcast.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] CD-ROM Antique Map Price Record
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:26:28 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
Thread-Index: AcPxgwopY4ycJWhyQ3OiZGRguk/z5AAMvQIA
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl


Oh my gosh!  Jeremy, I had no intention of disparaging your wonderful work. I apologize if I did.

I'm actually very pleased with the CD-ROM Antique Map Price Record, and look forward to the next edition.  The limitations I mentioned were of my own creation because I was using the CD-ROM Antique Map Price Record in a way that you had never intended.

James Speed Hensinger
jhensinger@comcast.net
Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/
           _
          ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign
           X  against HTML e-mail
          / \

 

. -----Original Message-----
. From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl 
. [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Jeremy Pool . Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:13 AM . To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
. Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were made?
. 
. It may be worth mentioning that thanks to the requests of . James and others, the Volume 19 edition of the Antique Map . Price Record CD-ROM (to be published in April) will include . the ability to export data to Excel (or to a flat file).  
. This should allow anybody to easily perform the kinds of . statistical analyses that James describes, without having to . go through the rather painful steps that he describes . performing in order to get the desired data into Excel.  The . export capability also allows the "cleaning up" of dates, so . that the date field can be treated as a numerical value for . purposes of statistical computation.
. 
. -- Jeremy Pool
. 
. >
. > From: "James Speed Hensinger" <jhensinger2@comcast.net> . > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:42:53 -0700 . >
. > Peter,
. >
. > I have two thoughts that might help.
. >
. > I'm interested in the size of the print runs of John . Speed's atlases.
. > I recently used the CD-ROM version of the "Antique Map Price Record"
. > to do some approximations.  Although Jeremy Poole the . creator of the 
. > CD-ROM hadn't anticipated my way of using it, he and I have . since had 
. > extensive e-mail correspondence about it.  I searched the . CD-ROM for 
. > John Speed and generated 1,125 listings.  By changing the printer . > driver on my Windows PC, I was able to "print" the one line . listings 
. > to a file.  I edited the file using Textpad, which is an . editor used 
. > by programmers, and cleaned up many of  the inconsistencies in the

. > date field.  After a couple of hours of work, I was able to get the 
. > data into a format that I could import into Excel (a spreadsheet . > program).  I was then able to sort by date, title, etc. and . do counts, 
. > and subtotals.  What I ended up with was a statistical breakdown of 
. > the sales of John Speed maps by the "significant" sales . houses for the 
. > past twenty years.  The data is very subject to . interpretation. But it 
. > is interesting.  I'm attaching a copy.  If you're not familiar with 
. > Excel, but do know how to open the file in Excel, let me . know and I'll 
. > provide some hints about how to manipulate the data.
. >
. 
. 
. _______________________________________________________________ . MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of . cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, . University of Utrecht.
. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are . those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of . the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not . take any responsibility for the views of the author.
. List Information: http://www.maphist.info . 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:12:59 -0500
From: Jeremy Pool <JeremyPool@comcast.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] CD-ROM Antique Map Price Record
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
James,

No offense taking. (I'm sorry if my prior message sounded like I was offended; I wasn't.)  I thought your use of the CD data was quite interesting, and I'm happy that you find it useful.

-- Jeremy

James Speed Hensinger wrote:

>Oh my gosh!  Jeremy, I had no intention of disparaging your wonderful
>work. I apologize if I did.
>
>I'm actually very pleased with the CD-ROM Antique Map Price Record,
>and look forward to the next edition.  The limitations I mentioned
>were of my own creation because I was using the CD-ROM Antique Map
>Price Record in a way that you had never intended.
>
>James Speed Hensinger
>jhensinger@comcast.net
>Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/
>           _
>          ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign
>           X  against HTML e-mail
>          / \
>
> 
>
>. -----Original Message-----
>. From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl 
>. [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Jeremy Pool
>. Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:13 AM
>. To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>. Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blaeu's Atlas maior, how many copies were
>made?
>. 
>. It may be worth mentioning that thanks to the requests of 
>. James and others, the Volume 19 edition of the Antique Map 
>. Price Record CD-ROM (to be published in April) will include 
>. the ability to export data to Excel (or to a flat file).  
>. This should allow anybody to easily perform the kinds of 
>. statistical analyses that James describes, without having to 
>. go through the rather painful steps that he describes 
>. performing in order to get the desired data into Excel.  The 
>. export capability also allows the "cleaning up" of dates, so 
>. that the date field can be treated as a numerical value for 
>. purposes of statistical computation.
>. 
>. -- Jeremy Pool
>. 
>. >
>. > From: "James Speed Hensinger" <jhensinger2@comcast.net>
>. > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:42:53 -0700
>. >
>. > Peter,
>. >
>. > I have two thoughts that might help.
>. >
>. > I'm interested in the size of the print runs of John 
>. Speed's atlases.
>. > I recently used the CD-ROM version of the "Antique Map Price
>Record"
>. > to do some approximations.  Although Jeremy Poole the 
>. creator of the 
>. > CD-ROM hadn't anticipated my way of using it, he and I have 
>. since had 
>. > extensive e-mail correspondence about it.  I searched the 
>. CD-ROM for 
>. > John Speed and generated 1,125 listings.  By changing the printer 
>. > driver on my Windows PC, I was able to "print" the one line 
>. listings 
>. > to a file.  I edited the file using Textpad, which is an 
>. editor used 
>. > by programmers, and cleaned up many of  the inconsistencies in the
>
>. > date field.  After a couple of hours of work, I was able to get
>the 
>. > data into a format that I could import into Excel (a spreadsheet 
>. > program).  I was then able to sort by date, title, etc. and 
>. do counts, 
>. > and subtotals.  What I ended up with was a statistical breakdown
>of 
>. > the sales of John Speed maps by the "significant" sales 
>. houses for the 
>. > past twenty years.  The data is very subject to 
>. interpretation. But it 
>. > is interesting.  I'm attaching a copy.  If you're not familiar
>with 
>. > Excel, but do know how to open the file in Excel, let me 
>. know and I'll 
>. > provide some hints about how to manipulate the data.
>. >
>. 
>. 
>. _______________________________________________________________
>. MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of 
>. cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, 
>. University of Utrecht.
>. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are 
>. those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of 
>. the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not 
>. take any responsibility for the views of the author.
>. List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>. 
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
>  
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:32:58 -0500
Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Looking for maps of the late Ottoman Balkans [A. Riedlmayer]
From: Kay Ebel <kaebel@owu.edu>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.543)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Can anyone possibly help with the following request for information from a colleague in Ottoman studies?

Kay Ebel
Ohio Wesleyan University


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Andras Riedlmayer <riedlmay@fas.harvard.edu>
> Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004  12:22:46  PM US/Eastern
>
> For a research project, I've been trying to locate some detailed road 
> maps
> of the late Ottoman Balkans.  If anyone knows of a library where such 
> maps
> can be found, or of other means of obtaining them (e.g. on the Web, or 
> for
> sale as originals or on CD-ROM), please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> András Riedlmayer
> Harvard University
>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Givat97@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:11:37 EST
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Fwd: Looking for maps of the late Ottoman Balkans [A. Riedlmayer]
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Andras,<BR> <BR>
How detailed do you need the maps to be? The Austrians produced 1:200,000 or 1:750,000 maps in the early 2oth century which should be available in most map libraries. If these are not suitable, you are likely to need to look in more specialised libraries or archives. such as the Library of Congress. There seems to have been little Ottoman mapping in that period, which means that you need to look at the military mapping produced by the then great powers (Austria, Britain or France)<BR> <BR>
Peter Collier</FONT></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:51:44 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded. 
Peter.

From: jrg.c@att.net
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000

Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test" the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on the subject?

Thanks for any help that you can provide.

Jody and Neil


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:57:16 -0500
From: Ottomantom@cs.com
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Fwd: Looking for maps of the late Ottoman Balkans [A. Riedlmayer]
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
X-AOL-IP: 152.163.252.6
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

A fair idea of the maps being produced by the Ottomans and by others that deal with the Balkans, see <Turk Deniz Muzesi Harita Katalogu (Chart and Map Catalogue of Turkish Naval Museum)>. Many of the maps are published in color.The Miltary Museum also has lots of maps but only the manuscript ones are in a published catalogue. Another repository is the Map Museum in Ankara, mostly 20th century publications.
Tom Goodrich

Givat97@aol.com wrote:

>Andras,
>
>How detailed do you need the maps to be? The Austrians produced 1:200,000 or 
>1:750,000 maps in the early 2oth century which should be available in most map 
>libraries. If these are not suitable, you are likely to need to look in more 
>specialised libraries or archives. such as the Library of Congress. There 
>seems to have been little Ottoman mapping in that period, which means that you 
>need to look at the military mapping produced by the then great powers (Austria, 
>Britain or France)
>
>Peter Collier
>
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:13:56 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

You could try the Map Collecting page on the 'Map History' site < http://www.maphistory.info/collecting.html >.  That should give you a number of further links.

Good luck

Tony Campbell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>" <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps


> This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded.
> Peter.
>
> From: jrg.c@att.net
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000
>
> Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a
> question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in
> the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test"
> the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on
> the subject?
>
> Thanks for any help that you can provide.
>
> Jody and Neil
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Curt Griggs" <curt@oldmaps.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:19:20 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I suggest you purchase Manasek's book 'Collecting Old Maps.'  It will give you a good introduction to the 'sport'.  Dealers are a good source of information - an honest and professional group is represented by IAMA - International Antiquarian Mapsellers Association.  Website is http://www.antiquemapdealers.com/index.htm.  Values of antique maps are available at www.oldmaps.com.

Have fun!

Curt Griggs
Old World Auctions (www.oldworldauctions.com) Ph: 1-928-282-3944
Fx:  1-928-282-3945

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>" <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps


> This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded.
> Peter.
>
> From: jrg.c@att.net
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000
>
> Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a
> question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in
> the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test"
> the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on
> the subject?
>
> Thanks for any help that you can provide.
>
> Jody and Neil
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: 200.65.129.25
X-URL: http://mail2web.com/
From: "vyrmayer@prodigy.net.mx" <vyrmayer@prodigy.net.mx>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:05:31 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2004 17:05:31.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0DE8BF0:01C3F31C]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I did not know the site http://www.maphist.info, so I tried it and entered "Mercator - New Spain" and as illustration it shows a map of (old) Spain, I have no way of knowing whether the rest of the information is correct. Is it that unreliable throughout?

Roberto Mayer


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Curt Griggs curt@oldmaps.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:19:20 -0700
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps


I suggest you purchase Manasek's book 'Collecting Old Maps.'  It will give you a good introduction to the 'sport'.  Dealers are a good source of information - an honest and professional group is represented by IAMA - International Antiquarian Mapsellers Association.  Website is http://www.antiquemapdealers.com/index.htm.  Values of antique maps are available at www.oldmaps.com.

Have fun!

Curt Griggs
Old World Auctions (www.oldworldauctions.com) Ph: 1-928-282-3944
Fx:  1-928-282-3945

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>" <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps


> This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded.
> Peter.
>
> From: jrg.c@att.net
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000
>
> Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a
> question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in
> the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test"
> the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on
> the subject?
>
> Thanks for any help that you can provide.
>
> Jody and Neil
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: jrg.c@att.net
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:57:16 +0000
X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Feb  8 2004)
X-Authenticated-Sender: anJnLmNAYXR0Lm5ldA==
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Thank you all for your help!  We really appreciate it and have found many resources thanks to all of you!

Jody and Neil
> You could try the Map Collecting page on the 'Map History' site <
> http://www.maphistory.info/collecting.html >.  That should give you a number
> of further links.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Tony Campbell
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>"
> <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:51 PM
> Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
> 
> 
> > This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded.
> > Peter.
> >
> > From: jrg.c@att.net
> > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000
> >
> > Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a
> > question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in
> > the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test"
> > the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on
> > the subject?
> >
> > Thanks for any help that you can provide.
> >
> > Jody and Neil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> > the views of the author.
> > List Information: http://www.maphist.info
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Cc: <jerry@milkyway.gsfc.nasa.gov>, <TomPurdom@cs.com>,
	"Larry Coon" <lac@cs.rit.edu>,
	"David Sherman" <tango9er@NetReach.Net>
Subject: [MapHist] Anniversaries 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:07:29 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Never rains but what it pours.&nbsp; 15 February is the birth anniversary of Galileo and 17 February is the death anniversary of Giordano Bruno, both, if for different reasons, champions of a cosmic view.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JBP </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:10:01 -0800
From: "Duane F. Marble" <marble.1@osu.edu>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax; CDonDemand-Dom)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
X-Spam-Rating: mail.oregonfast.net 0/1/N
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Norse Map or German Hoax? Still No Rest for Vinland

By Guy Gugliotta
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 16, 2004; Page A12

When it surfaced in 1957, it was too good to be true: a purported 15th-century world map depicting an island to the far west labeled Vinilandia Insula -- the fabled Vinland -- proof positive, it seemed, that Norse explorers had reached North America long before Columbus.

Thanks -- but no thanks -- the British Museum told the intermediary who offered to sell it to them. It's a phony.

Later that year, however, New Haven, Conn., book dealer Lawrence Witten bought the map and an accompanying medieval manuscript for his wife, paying $3,500. Soon after, he visited Yale University Library to view a seemingly unrelated manuscript fragment purchased by Thomas E. Marston, the library's curator of medieval and renaissance literature. Witten asked to borrow it.

That night, Marston got an excited call from Witten. Marston's manuscript, Witten's manuscript and the map were all written in the same hand, Witten said. Furthermore, worm holes in all three works matched up. They apparently had been bound together, with Marston's manuscript as the meat in the sandwich. The map had to be real.

Thus began the affair of the "Vinland Map," a 13-by-19-inch sheet of parchment depicting not only Vinland, but also remarkably detailed renderings of Iceland and, especially, of Greenland, which -- if the map is real -- is portrayed as an island for the first time in history.

Forty-five years after the map's "discovery," its authenticity remains a subject of fierce debate. In the last two months, the journal Analytical Chemistry has published two articles by front-line combatants in the dispute.

One, by retired Smithsonian research chemist Jacqueline Olin, argued that the presence of anatase, or titanium oxide, in the ink did not mean the ink was modern, as had been alleged in earlier research. She suggested the ink may well have been medieval, made from a simple leaching process from the titanium-rich mineral ilmenite.

The other, by Kenneth Towe, also a retired Smithsonian analyst, reminded readers that the map's anatase had a crystalline structure identical to commercial anatase, a ubiquitous synthetic compound used to enhance colors in paint. Olin's analysis, Towe charged, was "a 'rehash' that is too often biased, misleading or inaccurate."

In May, Danish businessman Jorgen Siemonsen, a well-known debunker of Viking frauds who is agnostic on the map, will sponsor a debate between believers and skeptics as part of a conference on the "Dynamics of Northern Societies."

And coming a month later will be a book-length study titled "Maps, Myths and Men, the Story of the Vinland Map," which will make the case that it is a 1930s forgery by a German Jesuit priest intent on making the Nazis look like fools.

At this juncture, a preponderance of evidence points toward forgery, but the argument is not over, and the stakes are high. If it is authentic, the map is priceless, the oldest known depiction of North America. 
Yale's Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, the map's current resting place, at one point reportedly insured it for $25 million. If it is not authentic, however, it is an amusing curiosity -- worth what Witten paid for it, perhaps, but not much more.

The Yale library refused a request to discuss the map except to say that it takes no position on its authenticity.

"It's going back and forth, and it will continue going back and forth," said William W. Fitzhugh, director of the Smithsonian Institution's Arctic Studies Center. "The people who made the studies are defending them, and I don't think it will ever be solved."

For 15 years after the Witten phone call, belief in the map's authenticity was ascendant. The British Museum's skeptics became believers. Philanthropist Paul Mellon bought the map and gave it to Yale. Then in 1960 a Norwegian husband and wife team discovered remains of a Norse encampment in Newfoundland, proving that Greenlanders had, in fact, reached North America.

There was dissent, however. Researchers were furious with Yale for keeping the map out of sight until Columbus Day 1965, choosing public relations pizzazz when orthodoxy called for prompt publication of scientific analyses. A team of British investigators questioned whether the ink was medieval. Paleographers questioned the handwriting.

And then there was the fact of the map itself. "The Norse never made maps," said Norwegian-born historian Kirsten Seaver, author of "Maps, Myths and Men." "When you are Norwegian and you see something like that, you say it is so fake, there's no use bothering with it. And how would a 15th-century mapmaker know Greenland was an island?"

"There was a medieval warm period" that may have allowed the Icelanders to colonize Greenland in the 10th century, but "it wasn't that much warmer" than today, Seaver said. "You'd be hard put to sail around Greenland today."

Still, the debate did not turn until 1973, when chemist Walter C. 
McCrone analyzed the map with polarized light microscopy and found that the yellow "aging stain" seeping from beneath the map's lines was made of synthetic anatase, a substance patented in 1917.

"That seemed to put it in the grave," Fitzhugh recalled.

But others disagreed. Olin made anatase from ilmenite, using a process that would have worked for medieval scribes. "There have been too few medieval inks analyzed" to make categorical statements about them, Olin said in an interview, responding to criticisms by McCrone, and later, Towe, that her anatase did not match the map's.

The case for authenticity was strengthened in 1987, when a University of California at Davis team led by Thomas Cahill reanalyzed the map using X-rays and concluded that titanium was present, but only in minute quantities, calling into question McCrone's analysis. Yale trumpeted these results in a 1995 revision of its original report on the map.

McCrone, who died in 2002, never wavered in dismissing it as a fraud. 
And that year a British team from University College, London, used laser analysis of the stain to draw conclusions identical to McCrone's. "I'm not taking any glamour away from McCrone," said chemist Robin J.H. 
Clark, co-author of the British study. "We used a completely different technique to obtain the same conclusion. I think the matter is over."

Not quite. At the same time, an Olin-led team published results from radiocarbon testing that dated the parchment to 1434 A.D. -- proof that the paper was old enough, even if the map wasn't.

And it isn't, Seaver said. Fascinated, she read everything written about Norse exploration since the 18th century and gradually homed in on the Rev. Josef Fischer, a German Jesuit cartographer and prolific Norse historian who died in 1944, as her chief suspect.

Seaver theorizes that Fischer, upset at Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church, drew the map in the late 1930s and deliberately larded it with religious references. "The Nazis loved to talk about a Nordic heritage, and the map was great for them," Seaver said, "except that it also told the story of how the Roman Church had been there from the start. It presented them with a wonderful dilemma."

© 2004 The Washington Post Company

-- 
Dr. Duane F. Marble		Email:  marble.1@osu.edu 2226 Primrose Lane		Telephone: (541) 902-8837 Florence, OR  97439		Cell:  (541) 991-1730

    "From now on, space by itself and time by itself
     are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and 
     only a kind of union of the two will preserve
     an independent reality."
                                - Minkowski, 1908



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: F.Herbert@RGS.org
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:33:54 -0000
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Therefore, apart from a reference to the hard copy version (only?) of Francis Manasek's book, you will also have discovered the online version of the book (in both hardback and softback editions) 'Antique maps' by Carl Moreland and David Bannister in the 'Christie's Collectors Guides' series?

Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG) f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives']

-----Original Message-----
From: jrg.c@att.net [mailto:jrg.c@att.net] Sent: 14 February 2004 20:57
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps

Thank you all for your help!  We really appreciate it and have found many resources thanks to all of you!

Jody and Neil
> You could try the Map Collecting page on the 'Map History' site <
> http://www.maphistory.info/collecting.html >.  That should give you a number
> of further links.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Tony Campbell
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>"
> <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:51 PM
> Subject: [MapHist] Collecting antique maps
> 
> 
> > This message was not distributed automatically while it was html-encoded.
> > Peter.
> >
> > From: jrg.c@att.net
> > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:34:56 +0000
> >
> > Hi.  I stumbled onto this list through random surfs and I'd like to pose a
> > question.  What are good sources for a couple who wants to get involved in
> > the collection of antique maps?  What do we look for?  How do you "test"
> > the worth of the map?  Are there any good books or articles or websites on
> > the subject?
> >
> > Thanks for any help that you can provide.
> >
> > Jody and Neil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> > the views of the author.
> > List Information: http://www.maphist.info
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: np003a5704@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:34:17 +0000
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Nick Pelling <incoming@pterodactyl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2004 10:34:22.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[70BC0910:01C3F478]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Hi MapHisters,

>In May, Danish businessman Jorgen Siemonsen, a well-known debunker of 
>Viking frauds who is agnostic on the map, will sponsor a debate between 
>believers and skeptics as part of a conference on the "Dynamics of 
>Northern Societies."

I've checked the "Dynamics of Northern Societies" conference notes at...
         http://www.dpc.dk/dynamics/Start.html ...but can't find any reference to this Vinland debate. Does anyone know any more about this?

Thanks, ....Nick Pelling.... 


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: seaver@seaver.pobox.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:55:12 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Paul S. Seaver" <seaver@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear Nick Pelling and others with the same question -- which includes me!

I am giving a paper (on walrus ivory) at this Copenhagen conference. 
Had Siemonsen's discussion been included with the conference information sent to me this far, I'd certainly have noted it. 
Conceivably, the session was added too recently to have made it onto the Web site.  If and when I learn more, I'll post the information to the MapHist list.

Best regards,

Kirsten A. Seaver

>Hi MapHisters,
>
>>In May, Danish businessman Jorgen Siemonsen, a well-known debunker 
>>of Viking frauds who is agnostic on the map, will sponsor a debate 
>>between believers and skeptics as part of a conference on the 
>>"Dynamics of Northern Societies."
>
>I've checked the "Dynamics of Northern Societies" conference notes at...
>         http://www.dpc.dk/dynamics/Start.html
>...but can't find any reference to this Vinland debate. Does anyone 
>know any more about this?
>
>Thanks, ....Nick Pelling....
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info


-- 
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Parodi" <parodi@atlink.it>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:38:09 +0100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

A question to the experts:
Is anatase present in the Marston's manuscript and Witten's manuscript?
If so, the authenticity problem widens to these parchment leafs, too.
If not, they are not from the same hand.
I read that the map ink heavily vanished during these last years. Did it in the other manuscripts?

Thanks all.

Marco Parodi


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duane F. Marble" <marble.1@osu.edu> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:10 AM Subject: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map


> Norse Map or German Hoax? Still No Rest for Vinland
>
> By Guy Gugliotta
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Monday, February 16, 2004; Page A12
>
> When it surfaced in 1957, it was too good to be true: a purported
> 15th-century world map depicting an island to the far west labeled
> Vinilandia Insula -- the fabled Vinland -- proof positive, it seemed,
> that Norse explorers had reached North America long before Columbus.
>
> Thanks -- but no thanks -- the British Museum told the intermediary who
> offered to sell it to them. It's a phony.
>
> Later that year, however, New Haven, Conn., book dealer Lawrence Witten
> bought the map and an accompanying medieval manuscript for his wife,
> paying $3,500. Soon after, he visited Yale University Library to view a
> seemingly unrelated manuscript fragment purchased by Thomas E. Marston,
> the library's curator of medieval and renaissance literature. Witten
> asked to borrow it.
>
> That night, Marston got an excited call from Witten. Marston's
> manuscript, Witten's manuscript and the map were all written in the same
> hand, Witten said. Furthermore, worm holes in all three works matched
> up. They apparently had been bound together, with Marston's manuscript
> as the meat in the sandwich. The map had to be real.
>
> Thus began the affair of the "Vinland Map," a 13-by-19-inch sheet of
> parchment depicting not only Vinland, but also remarkably detailed
> renderings of Iceland and, especially, of Greenland, which -- if the map
> is real -- is portrayed as an island for the first time in history.
>
> Forty-five years after the map's "discovery," its authenticity remains a
> subject of fierce debate. In the last two months, the journal Analytical
> Chemistry has published two articles by front-line combatants in the
> dispute.
>
> One, by retired Smithsonian research chemist Jacqueline Olin, argued
> that the presence of anatase, or titanium oxide, in the ink did not mean
> the ink was modern, as had been alleged in earlier research. She
> suggested the ink may well have been medieval, made from a simple
> leaching process from the titanium-rich mineral ilmenite.
>
> The other, by Kenneth Towe, also a retired Smithsonian analyst, reminded
> readers that the map's anatase had a crystalline structure identical to
> commercial anatase, a ubiquitous synthetic compound used to enhance
> colors in paint. Olin's analysis, Towe charged, was "a 'rehash' that is
> too often biased, misleading or inaccurate."
>
> In May, Danish businessman Jorgen Siemonsen, a well-known debunker of
> Viking frauds who is agnostic on the map, will sponsor a debate between
> believers and skeptics as part of a conference on the "Dynamics of
> Northern Societies."
>
> And coming a month later will be a book-length study titled "Maps, Myths
> and Men, the Story of the Vinland Map," which will make the case that it
> is a 1930s forgery by a German Jesuit priest intent on making the Nazis
> look like fools.
>
> At this juncture, a preponderance of evidence points toward forgery, but
> the argument is not over, and the stakes are high. If it is authentic,
> the map is priceless, the oldest known depiction of North America.
> Yale's Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, the map's current
> resting place, at one point reportedly insured it for $25 million. If it
> is not authentic, however, it is an amusing curiosity -- worth what
> Witten paid for it, perhaps, but not much more.
>
> The Yale library refused a request to discuss the map except to say that
> it takes no position on its authenticity.
>
> "It's going back and forth, and it will continue going back and forth,"
> said William W. Fitzhugh, director of the Smithsonian Institution's
> Arctic Studies Center. "The people who made the studies are defending
> them, and I don't think it will ever be solved."
>
> For 15 years after the Witten phone call, belief in the map's
> authenticity was ascendant. The British Museum's skeptics became
> believers. Philanthropist Paul Mellon bought the map and gave it to
> Yale. Then in 1960 a Norwegian husband and wife team discovered remains
> of a Norse encampment in Newfoundland, proving that Greenlanders had, in
> fact, reached North America.
>
> There was dissent, however. Researchers were furious with Yale for
> keeping the map out of sight until Columbus Day 1965, choosing public
> relations pizzazz when orthodoxy called for prompt publication of
> scientific analyses. A team of British investigators questioned whether
> the ink was medieval. Paleographers questioned the handwriting.
>
> And then there was the fact of the map itself. "The Norse never made
> maps," said Norwegian-born historian Kirsten Seaver, author of "Maps,
> Myths and Men." "When you are Norwegian and you see something like that,
> you say it is so fake, there's no use bothering with it. And how would a
> 15th-century mapmaker know Greenland was an island?"
>
> "There was a medieval warm period" that may have allowed the Icelanders
> to colonize Greenland in the 10th century, but "it wasn't that much
> warmer" than today, Seaver said. "You'd be hard put to sail around
> Greenland today."
>
> Still, the debate did not turn until 1973, when chemist Walter C.
> McCrone analyzed the map with polarized light microscopy and found that
> the yellow "aging stain" seeping from beneath the map's lines was made
> of synthetic anatase, a substance patented in 1917.
>
> "That seemed to put it in the grave," Fitzhugh recalled.
>
> But others disagreed. Olin made anatase from ilmenite, using a process
> that would have worked for medieval scribes. "There have been too few
> medieval inks analyzed" to make categorical statements about them, Olin
> said in an interview, responding to criticisms by McCrone, and later,
> Towe, that her anatase did not match the map's.
>
> The case for authenticity was strengthened in 1987, when a University of
> California at Davis team led by Thomas Cahill reanalyzed the map using
> X-rays and concluded that titanium was present, but only in minute
> quantities, calling into question McCrone's analysis. Yale trumpeted
> these results in a 1995 revision of its original report on the map.
>
> McCrone, who died in 2002, never wavered in dismissing it as a fraud.
> And that year a British team from University College, London, used laser
> analysis of the stain to draw conclusions identical to McCrone's. "I'm
> not taking any glamour away from McCrone," said chemist Robin J.H.
> Clark, co-author of the British study. "We used a completely different
> technique to obtain the same conclusion. I think the matter is over."
>
> Not quite. At the same time, an Olin-led team published results from
> radiocarbon testing that dated the parchment to 1434 A.D. -- proof that
> the paper was old enough, even if the map wasn't.
>
> And it isn't, Seaver said. Fascinated, she read everything written about
> Norse exploration since the 18th century and gradually homed in on the
> Rev. Josef Fischer, a German Jesuit cartographer and prolific Norse
> historian who died in 1944, as her chief suspect.
>
> Seaver theorizes that Fischer, upset at Nazi persecution of the Catholic
> Church, drew the map in the late 1930s and deliberately larded it with
> religious references. "The Nazis loved to talk about a Nordic heritage,
> and the map was great for them," Seaver said, "except that it also told
> the story of how the Roman Church had been there from the start. It
> presented them with a wonderful dilemma."
>
> © 2004 The Washington Post Company
>
> -- 
> Dr. Duane F. Marble Email:  marble.1@osu.edu
> 2226 Primrose Lane Telephone: (541) 902-8837
> Florence, OR  97439 Cell:  (541) 991-1730
>
>     "From now on, space by itself and time by itself
>      are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and
>      only a kind of union of the two will preserve
>      an independent reality."
>                                 - Minkowski, 1908
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: seaver@seaver.pobox.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:17:02 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Paul S. Seaver" <seaver@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }  --></style><title>Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map</title></head><body>
<div>Marco Parodi asks:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Anatase was not found in the two textual companions to the Vinland Map, nor has it been found in any other medieval manuscript examined for the presence of this form of titanium dioxide.&nbsp; There is pretty good agreement about the mid-fifteenth-century authenticity of the VM &quot;sister&quot; manuscripts.</div> <div><br></div>
<div>The essentially carbon-based ink on the map was already in such a bad state forty years ago that photographic enhancement was necessary to obtain a reproducible picture for the 1965 Yale book (a fact that is carefully noted in the folder with the map at the Beinecke).&nbsp; In the<i> Speculum historiale</i> and &quot;Tartar Relation&quot; MSS, where iron gallo-tannate ink was used, the writing is still fully legible in dark letters against delicately rusted panels of text.&nbsp; In fact, the two texts are in amazingly good shape overall compared with the map.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Kirsten A. Seaver </div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Is anatase present in the Marston's manuscript and Witten's manuscript?<br> If so, the authenticity problem widens to these parchment leafs, too.<br>
If not, they are not from the same hand.<br> I read that the map ink heavily vanished during these last years. Did it in</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>the other manuscripts?</blockquote> <div>&nbsp;</div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
</body>
</html>
</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Angus Murray" <a.d.j.murray@ntlworld.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:20:17 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on the Vinland Map</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE type=text/css>BLOCKQUOTE {
	PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
DL {
	PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
UL {
	PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
OL {
	PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
LI {
	PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
</STYLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>If it is accepted that the Speculum<EM> </EM>Historiale and "Tartar Relation"&nbsp; MSS were at one time bound with </FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>the<EM> </EM><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Vinland map</FONT> </FONT>(which seems difficult to refute in that the worm holes line up even to the "tooth marks") then presumably&nbsp; detractors must have a theory as to why a blank sheet that could be used for a forgery&nbsp;was bound with these other documents.&nbsp;Another viable scenario is of course that the forger bound the map with the others and then applied worm to make the holes in the expectation that someone would later note the correspondence. The latter idea seems bizarre as it might have taken 100 years before anyone made the connection. Only slightly more likely is that the owner of a map of dubious provenance temporarliy bound it with the other documents and similarly applied worm to link them together.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Is there any evidence that the prime forgery suspects owned or had access to all three documents any time? The forger would have to be an artist and technician of superlative skills, highly knowledgeable of antique maps, skilled in caligraphy and have an appropriate motive. That must narrow the field.</DIV> <DIV>Has anyone attempted to duplicate the processes involved in the hypothetical forgery to see if it is indeed possible?</DIV> <DIV>The idea that a forger was able to draw a second line over the first to simulate the spreading yellow stain seems unlikely. He would never be able to pause for fear of creating a blot and at the same time would have to achieve perfect registration or start all over&nbsp;again on another 15thC blank sheet. 
There would be no room for error. Such sheets are not easy to find. It would also seem likely that the places where the forger stopped and started the second line would not coincide perfectly with the original one and could be detected under the microscope.</DIV>
<DIV>Regarding the difference in ink quality from the Speculum<EM> </EM>Historiale and "Tartar Relation",&nbsp;is there any&nbsp;proof that the documents were by the same hand?Even&nbsp;supposing they were, different batches and types of inks must have been used by one mapmaker at different times.</DIV> <DIV>Regards Angus Murray</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=seaver@stanford.edu href="mailto:seaver@stanford.edu">Paul S. 
  Seaver</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=maphist@geog.uu.nl 
  href="mailto:maphist@geog.uu.nl">maphist@geog.uu.nl</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 16, 2004 5:17 
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [MapHist] Washington Post on 
  the Vinland Map</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Marco Parodi asks:</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Anatase was not found in the two textual companions to the Vinland Map, 
  nor has it been found in any other medieval manuscript examined for the 
  presence of this form of titanium dioxide.&nbsp; There is pretty good 
  agreement about the mid-fifteenth-century authenticity of the VM "sister" 
  manuscripts.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>The essentially carbon-based ink on the map was already in such a bad 
  state forty years ago that photographic enhancement was necessary to obtain a 
  reproducible picture for the 1965 Yale book (a fact that is carefully noted in 
  the folder with the map at the Beinecke).&nbsp; In the<I> Speculum 
  historiale</I> and "Tartar Relation" MSS, where iron gallo-tannate ink was 
  used, the writing is still fully legible in dark letters against delicately 
  rusted panels of text.&nbsp; In fact, the two texts are in amazingly good 
  shape overall compared with the map.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Kirsten A. Seaver </DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite">Is anatase present in the Marston's manuscript 
    and Witten's manuscript?<BR>If so, the authenticity problem widens to these 
    parchment leafs, too.<BR>If not, they are not from the same hand.<BR>I read 
    that the map ink heavily vanished during these last years. Did it 
  in</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite">the other manuscripts?</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>-- 
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></X-SIGSEP></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:31:53 -0500
From: overlee <overlee@verizon.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maptrade@raremaps.com,
	mapcollector@antiquemapdealers.com, discovery@listserver.tue.nl,
	S_Otterstrom@byu.edu, H-HISTGEOG@H-NET.MSU.EDU
Subject: [MapHist] Catalogue Fifty
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.203.163.8] at Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:31:21 -0600
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html>
<head>
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> Overlee Farm Books announces that Catalogue 50 containing hundreds of titles in cartography, geography, voyages, travels, discovery, exploration, nautical and maritime will be available in March.&nbsp; If you have never received a catalogue and would like to, please e-mail your request to <b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:overlee@verizon.net">overlee@verizon.net</a></b>.&nbsp; <b>PLEASE DO <u>NOT</u> USE YOUR E-MAIL REPLY FUNCTION TO RESPOND TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT; MAKE SURE YOUR MESSAGE COMES TO US AND IS NOT SENT TO THE ENTIRE LIST.&nbsp; </b>Thank you---and please excuse cross-posting.<br> </body>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: akermanj@mail.newberry.org
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:56:54 -0600
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Jim Akerman <akermanj@newberry.org>
Subject: [MapHist] summer insititute at the Newberry
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>
<body>
Dear everyone,<br><br>
Some of you may have missed my posting last fall announcing the summer institute on the history of popualr cartography we are hosting here at the Newberry this summer.&nbsp; There is still time to apply before the March 1 deadline.&nbsp; We'd be delighted if you could pass this information along to interested colleagues.<br><br> Please find the announcement below.&nbsp; <br><br> Jim Akerman<br><br>
********************************************<br><br> <h3><b>Reading Popular Cartography</b></h3><b>an NEH summer institute for College and University Faculty and Staff<br><br> at The Newberry Library<br><br>
12 July - 13 August 2004<br><br>
</b>&nbsp;<br><br>
The Newberry Library's Hermon Dunlap Smith Center for the History of Cartography invites college and university faculty in the United States to apply for its 2004 summer institute, <i>Reading Popular Cartography</i>.&nbsp; The institute, supported by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities, is designed to foster an interdisciplinary appreciation of the history and culture of popular mapping.&nbsp; Major themes to be explored by the institute include &quot;Map Production and the Modern Map Trade,&quot; &quot;Maps in Literature and the Arts,&quot; &quot;Maps in the Public Sphere,&quot; and &quot;Mapping and Making American Identity.&quot;&nbsp; Institute faculty include James Akerman, Tom Conley, Michael Conzen, Diane Dillon, Matthew Edney, Richard Francaviglia, Adele Haft, Robert Karrow, Mark Monmonier, Patrick Morris, Jeffrey Peters, Susan Schulten, and David Woodward.&nbsp; There will be ample time for participants to pursue individual research projects in the Newberry's map collection.<br><br> <i>Reading Popular Cartography </i>will be held from July 12 to August 13, 2004.&nbsp; Scholars from a broad range of humanities and social science disciplines are encouraged to apply.&nbsp; Applications must be postmarked by March 1, 2004.&nbsp; For further information and application materials please visit our website at <a href="http://www.newberry.org/popcart">www.newberry.org/popcart</a>, or contact Susan Hanf, Smith Center, The Newberry Library, 60 W. Walton Street, Chicago, IL 60610, phone (312) 255-3659, e-mail <a href="mailto:hanfs@newberry.org">hanfs@newberry.org</a> </body> <br>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:22:23 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt <p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] SEMINAR:  "Reading & Mapping Early 20th C. NYC's Chinatown"
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["ahudson" <ahudson@nypl.org>]


See message below on a program Feb. 26 on  mapping NYC's Chinatown.

Alice C. Hudson
Chief, Map Division
The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library
5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117
New York, NY 10018-278

ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027

http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html

The true meaning of life is to plant trees,
           under whose shade you do not expect to sit.
                                             - Nelson Henderson

----- Forwarded by ahudson/MHT/Nypl on 02/17/2004 07:54 PM -----

                       Wendy 
Plotkin
                       <wplotkin@robsonc        To: H-URBAN@H-NET.MSU.EDU
                       om.net>                  cc: 

                       Sent by: 
H-NET           Subject:  SEMINAR:  "Reading & Mapping Early 20th C.
                       Urban History             NYC's Chinatown"
                       Discussion 
List
                       <H-URBAN@H-NET.MS 

                       U.EDU> 



                       02/16/2004 
02:15
                       PM 

                       Please respond 
to
                       H-NET 
Urban
                       History 

                       Discussion 
List






From: Seth M. Vose III <svose@masshist.org>

The Massachusetts Historical Society announces the Fifth event in its 2003-2004 season of the Immigration and Urban History Seminars.

February 26, 2004

Mary Lui, Yale University

"Reading and Mapping Early Twentieth Century New York City's Chinatown"

Comment: K. Scott Wong, Williams College

         All seminars take place at the society, 1154 Boylston St., Boston, MA
02215, and commence at 5:15 PM.  As always, the seminar involves the discussion of a pre-circulated paper.  After a brief introduction by Prof.
Liu, a commentary by Prof. Wong, and a rebuttal by Prof. Lui, the session will be opened to general discussion by the audience.

         After the event, the Society will serve a light buffet supper.
Reservations are suggested but not required to attend the seminar, but are required to attend the supper so that numbers may be given to the caterer.
To make a reservation, please email the address below or call our seminar voicemail line at (617) 646-0540 and leave a message.

         The event is free and open to the public.  There is a charge to subscribe
to the papers for the season.  To receive the papers by post, please send a check to the society at the contact information below for $25. To receive papers by a username and password which allows access to a secure page on our website where the papers may be downloaded in PDF format, please send $15. Please mark your check with the name of the seminar you are subscribing. Please also note the society also hosts two other seminars, Early American History and Environmental History. For information on those seminars, please note the contact information below.

In the event inclement weather seems likely, please do not hesitate to call to find out if the event is going forward or has been postponed.

We look forward to seeing you at the seminars.

Seth M. Vose 3rd.
Program Coordinator
Publications and Research Department
Massachusetts Historical Society

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Boardman, Richard" <BoardmanR@excen.library.phila.gov>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:41:12 -0500
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I have a patron trying to date and find something of a history on a map of Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. It was surveyed by Alex Y. Lee and published by Otto Krebs of Pittsburgh. L.C has 1883 and 1890 copies and I have an 1884 copy. I've not been able to find anything about Lee and not much more about Krebs, other than he seems to have been a local publisher. I rooted around on google and found some mention of the map but that's all. She has a copy that matches some content on  the 1883 and 1884 maps but there is no date on her map. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks.

Rich Boardman
Map Collection Free Library of Philadelphia _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: seaver@seaver.pobox.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:16:41 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Paul S. Seaver" <seaver@stanford.edu>
Subject: [MapHist] "Dynamics of Northern Societies" conference
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
A further response to Nick Pelling's query (Feb. 16, 2004) concerning

>>
>"I've checked the "Dynamics of Northern Societies" conference notes at...
>         http://www.dpc.dk/dynamics/Start.html
>...but can't find any reference to this Vinland debate. Does anyone 
>know any more about this?
>
>Thanks, ....Nick Pelling....

Fellow MapHisters --

The "Dynamics of Northern Societies" conference organizer has just told me that a "Vinland Map Session" is indeed being planned.  It will no doubt appear soon on the Web program for the conference, which takes place in Copenhagen May 10-14.  The time slot for the Vinland Map discussion will be May  13, 7:00-9;00 PM, at the National Museum.

Kirsten A. Seaver


-- 
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:49:14 -0500
From: jsk@gamewood.net
Subject: [MapHist] New Book- You Are Here: Personal Geographies and Other Maps of the Imagination
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I was just given a copy of Katharine Harmon’s "You Are Here: Personal Geographies and Other Maps of the Imagination" by Katharine Harman, former art director of Sasquatch Books.  This has just been published by Princeton Architectural Press (ISBN 1568984308). Several short sections have been written by other authors, including Denis Wood. This is quite a nice and whimsical work, with pieces from Aleph’s "Geographical Fun", the works of Jo Mora, body topographical maps, maps of emotional and philosophical and political subjects. Many of the items are quite decorative and fanciful. I thought I’d just share this engaging and attractive work with the group. I only see a paperback edition listed.

Joel Kovarsky

		
		
		
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:45:33 -0900
From: Dee Longenbaugh <deelong@alaska.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Tempesta map query
X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
This was sent to me. Any experts out there who would like to help Mr. Weis?
	Dee
>  > I'm a french illustrator currently working on a comic book about
>>  Caravaggio's life.
>>  I'm cuurently working on the preparatory studies about history and daily
>>  life in Italy around 1600. I've heard about two maps which would be
>perfect
>>  to help me in a book at the National Library in Paris : Tempesta's map
>>  (1593) and Giovanni Maggi's one (1625).
>>  I've found many informations about other maps (particularly on this
>website
>>  :
>>
>http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bycountry/italy/rome/popolo/plansofrome/whol
>>  eplans/00019.html) but I did not find any pictures of these two maps.
>>  Would you know where I could find reproductions of them, on the Internet
>or
>>  in a book ?
>>  Thanks a lot for your help.
>>
>>  Best regards,
>>
>>  Nicolas Weis
>>  http://nicolas.weis.free.fr

-- 
  The Observatory, ABAA
200 North Franklin Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
907/586-9676
fax 907/586-9606
deelong@alaska.com
http://www.observatorybooks.com
Since 1977
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:45:15 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt <p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl>)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Tempesta map query
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from [David Meikle <david.meikle@verizon.net>]


The link to the Tempesta map on the "Rubens" website is incomplete.  The full link is

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bycountry/italy/rome/popolo/plansofrome/tempesta/blurb.html

There are loads of scans there.


Many scans of the Maggi map are available at the following website of views of Rome through the ages, arranged by location:

http://www2.siba.fi/~kkoskim/rooma/pages/MAIN.HTM


David Meikle
Archway Books

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: F.Herbert@RGS.org
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Tempesta map query
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:44:36 -0000
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>

<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">

<style>
<!--
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Courier New";}
@page Section1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 77.95pt 72.0pt 77.95pt;} div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>

<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>You will also find a paper copy illustration (easier to read in bed) in -</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>'Urbis Romae Prospectus 1593 : Antonio Tempestas karta över Rom' by Gunilla Åkerström-Hougen. - In: Det skapande jaget : konsthistoriska texter tillägnade Maj-Brit Wadell / ed. I Bergström [et al.]. - Göteborg (1995).
- p.159-172 : ill., maps. - Rev. version of paper read at 14<sup>th</sup> Internat. Conf. on the Hist. of Cartogr., </span></font><span lang=EN-GB>Uppsala</span><span lang=EN-GB> &amp; </span><span lang=EN-GB>Stockholm</span><span lang=EN-GB>, 19.6.1991. - ISBN 91-85198-13-7</span></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am assuming, of course, that reading Swedish (if you wish to follow the authoress's argument) isn't a problem!</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB  style='font-size:10.0pt'>Francis Herbert</span></font><span lang=EN-GB> (Compiler of 'Imago Mundi Bibliography')</span></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:f.herbert@rgs.org">f.herbert@rgs.org</a></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.rgs.org/">http://www.rgs.org</a> [see 'Collections'/'Unloc</span></font><span lang=EN-GB>king</span><span lang=EN-GB> the </span><span lang=EN-GB>Archives</span><span lang=EN-GB>']</span></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size: 10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] <br> Sent: 23 February 2004 12:45<br>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl<br>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Tempesta map query</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Non-member submission from [David Meikle &lt;david.meikle@verizon.net&gt;]</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>The link to the Tempesta map on the &quot;Rubens&quot; website is incomplete.  The</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>full link is</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bycountry/italy/rome/popolo/plansofrome/tempesta/blurb.html</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>There are loads of scans there.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Many scans of the Maggi map are available at the following website of</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>views of Rome through the ages, arranged by location:</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://www2.siba.fi/~kkoskim/rooma/pages/MAIN.HTM</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>David Meikle</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Archway Books</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________________________</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>the views of the author.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>List Information: http://www.maphist.info</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Pascal Pannetier" <routenostalgie@free.fr>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Route Nostalgie -  N°5 Road history Magazine
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:42:10 +0100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
Importance: Normal
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl


Hello ,

Infos on the French Magazine Route Nostalgie   -  N°5

60 color pages,

Article on maps in this numerous 5 :

In French on the midle adge road maps and road guides by Georges Reverdy In French on the mecanic road maps by Pascal Pannetier In english on the Oil Azur road maps by Ian Byrne.

http://routenostalgie.free.fr


AUTOMOBILIA  -  ROAD MEMORY  -  PETROLIANA  -  ART

Février 2004 - Avril 2004
In  Summary :

- Les cartes routières à mécanisme
- Histoire de la distribution d'essence - Les panneaux de signalisation l'entre 2 guerres - Conférence de l'IHTP
- A voir, ... A lire, ... Pour info ... (Brèves et Communiqués) - Cartes, guides et routes : Le moyen age - Les routes du Web (Bonnes adresses)
- L'art de la route : Pierre Le Goff (portrait d'artiste) - Expo : Rétro Mobile 2004
- L'art de la route : Expo Arman au mondial du 2 roues (reportage) - La reine station service
- Azur Road maps
- Livre : Les 100 plus belles affiches du pneu (en anglais) - Meeting : " Festivités de Linas " et " Mémoire en Route " - La route sous le marteau (vente Arcurial) - Dates des salons, expos, ventes aux enchères et bourses - En voie de disparition (old photos)


http://routenostalgie.free.fr

Association Auto Mobilier collections - B.P. 48 - 91422 Morangis France routenostalgie@free.fr

.


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:20:45 -0900
From: Dee Longenbaugh <deelong@alaska.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Town plans for Caravaggio needed
X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear MapHisters,
	The French comics creator who needed the Tempesta map asked me to thank the members who kindly showed him where to look. When asked for further information, he sent this along:

>	> Well, the main character of my story is the painter Caravaggio.
>Born in 1572 in a village called Caravaggio (near Milano), he arrives in
>Roma in 1592 and leaves it in 1606, wanted for murder by the pope police.
>Then, he goes to Napoli, spends a year in the island of Malta, goes to
>Syracuse, Palermo and Messine, before going back to Roma and finally dies on
>a tuscan beach called Porto Ercole.
>If you can ask about any maps of these cities and if it is not too much to
>ask, it would be very useful to me to see maps of these cities at these
>periods (if they exist). This is the next step of my preparatory work, for
>the moment I'm reading as much as I can about Roma because it is the city
>where he stays 14 years.

-- 
  The Observatory, ABAA
200 North Franklin Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
907/586-9676
fax 907/586-9606
deelong@alaska.com
http://www.observatorybooks.com
Since 1977
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:03:04 +0100
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Town plans for Caravaggio needed
X-Sensitivity: 3
From: "m-ark@libero.it" <m-ark@libero.it>
To: "maphist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27)
X-type: 0
X-SenderIP: 213.140.17.109
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear "creator",


for Naples he certainly saw the "Pianta Du Pérac-Lafréry", a bird's eye view published in 1566, and the "Neapolis urbs ad verissimam effigiem" published by Carlo Theti, an engineer, in 1560. The Theti map has a great number (158) of toponymys in legend: porte, chiese, Palazzi... 
These are the two interesting documents before the redaction of Alessandro Baratta panorama (first edition 1627, only one incomplete copy at British Library, other editions 1629, 1670 etc. have different copies). 
If you want other infos write at my own address,

Best wishes,


Marco Iuliano
Centro studi sull'iconografia della città europea Palazzo Gravina - Via Monteoliveto 3
80134 Napoli

> Dear MapHisters,
> 	The French comics creator who needed the Tempesta map asked 
> me to thank the members who kindly showed him where to look. When 
> asked for further information, he sent this along:
> 
> >	> Well, the main character of my story is the painter Caravaggio.
> >Born in 1572 in a village called Caravaggio (near Milano), he arrives in
> >Roma in 1592 and leaves it in 1606, wanted for murder by the pope police.
> >Then, he goes to Napoli, spends a year in the island of Malta, goes to
> >Syracuse, Palermo and Messine, before going back to Roma and finally dies on
> >a tuscan beach called Porto Ercole.
> >If you can ask about any maps of these cities and if it is not too much to
> >ask, it would be very useful to me to see maps of these cities at these
> >periods (if they exist). This is the next step of my preparatory work, for
> >the moment I'm reading as much as I can about Roma because it is the city
> >where he stays 14 years.
> 
> -- 
>   The Observatory, ABAA
> 200 North Franklin Street
> Juneau, Alaska 99801
> 907/586-9676
> fax 907/586-9606
> deelong@alaska.com
> http://www.observatorybooks.com
> Since 1977
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
> 



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:17:07 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] THE MEDITERRANEAN MEDINA Call for papers 
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Please find included the SECOND call for papers of the international seminar " The Mediterranean Medina".
I will be grateful to you if you could diffuse it.
Please note that we have delayed the deadline till March 30th.
In the future when you correspond with us please note that the official address of the seminar is
mediterraneanmedina@yahoo.it
it not com
Best regards

Attilio Petruccioli
Dean
Faculty of Architecture, Polytechnic University of Bari Via Orabona 4, 75125 Bari, Italy
Fax 39.080 5963823
Pho 39 080 5963887 - 5963810



UNIVERSITA' "G. D'ANNUNZIO" - FACOLTA' DI ARCHITETTURA Dipartimento idea-infrastrutture design engineering architettura iraM - Istituto di Ricerca Architettura Mediterranea

POLITECNICO DI BARI
ICAR - Dipartimento di Scienze dell'Ingegneria Civile e dell'Architettura

International Seminar

THE MEDITERRANEAN MEDINA

June 17-19, 2004
Pescara, Facoltà di Architettura
Francavilla, Museo Michetti



The seminar aims at the study of the particular physical characters and the main transformations of the Mediterranean City. Such an urban structure is the result of different overlapping historical traces. The Mediterranean City has built up its identity through the reuse and modification of the previous urban remains.

The Medina of the Eastern and Southern Mediterranean regions is also the result of the coexistence and work of different ethnic and religious groups with their heritage of civic and religious institutions, typologies, building materials and techniques.

The peculiar physical characters of the Mediterranean Medina are revealed in the compact urban fabric, in the genuine use of building materials and architectural pieces, "spolia", of the Roman city found on the site, as well as in the invention of clever techniques of climatic and environmental control.

The loss of the complex identity of the Mediterranean City is mainly caused by the lack of maintenance in the historical urban sectors, the emigration of ethnic groups due to dramatic events and the introduction of new building systems and new environmental control techniques.

The study of the structure of the Medina should lead to a better understanding and control of its transformations, aiming at the preservation of a precious heritage that is, to this date, still a vital part of the contemporary city.

The program of the conference includes the following thematic sections: ·        the marginal areas  echoing the urban Mediterranean identity; ·        the role of the archaeological remains in the formation of the Mediterranean Medina;
·        urban analysis case studies  focussing on the historical traces, the ethnic groups, the building technologies and the rehabilitation strategies; ·        the Mediterranean courtyard house.

Submission Requirements
You are invited to submit a short, one-page abstract not to exceed 300words. All abstracts must be written and presented in English. Do not place your name on the abstracts but rather attach a one-page curriculum vitae with your address and name. Specify which of the thematic sections you would like your paper to be included in. Authors must submit their abstract and c.v. at the same time by e-mail (within the body of the e-mail and not as an attachment) to this address: mediterraneanmedina@yahoo.it The deadline for submitting abstracts and c.v. is 30th of March 2004

Paper Submission Process
Abstracts will be selected via a blind peer-review process. Authors will be notified of abstracts acceptance for publication and conference presentation by 15th of April 2004.
Full-length papers of 4,000 words or less (each graphic and table counts for 250 words) will be due 15th of May 2004. Authors must pre-register for the conference at this time for their papers to be included in the proceedings and in the conference schedule.
The registration fee is 150 Euro. Please note registration fees do not cover hotel accommodations and travel.

Organizing Committee and Conference Conveners Ludovico Micara, Conference Director
Attilio Petruccioli, Conference Director

Keynote Speakers
Doris Behrens Abouseif
Heinz Gaube
Renata Holod
André Raymond

Scientific Committee
Doris Behrens Abouseif
Claudio D'Amato
Giangiacomo D'Ardia
Heinz Gaube
Renata Holod
Mauro Mezzina
Ludovico Micara
Rosario Pavia
Attilio Petruccioli
André Raymond

Conference Sponsors
Dipartimento IDEA - Infrastrutture Design Engineering Architettura - Università "G. D'Annunzio" - Pescara - Italy ICAR - Dipartimento di Scienze dell'Ingegneria Civile e dell'Architettura - Politecnico di Bari - Italy
Regione Abruzzo
Provincia di Pescara
Comune di Francavilla al Mare
Comune di Pescara

Conference Site
The conference will be held at the Faculty of Architecture of Pescara, on the Adriatic coast, 180 Km east of Rome.
An exhibition of models and drawings concerning the Mediterranean Medina will be organized in the Museo Michetti in Francavilla al Mare, a lovely summer resort 10 Km from Pescara.

Questions
Contact Ludovico Micara - l.micara@tin.it

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: F.Herbert@RGS.org
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Town plans for Caravaggio needed
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:51:38 -0000
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dee,


Dee:

If he has already exhausted the internet map images web-pages on Tony Campbell's History of Cartography gateway site (neither he nor you indicate so), has your secret French comic creator also access to a 'good' reference library?  Is he French and in France, or French and living on a remote Pacific island? 

For both carto-bibliographies and shorter articles on maps and town plans of Malta - from mid-16th century Ottoman siege onward - he should look for the name of Albert Ganado (see numerous issues of the 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' for example).  Napoli has been similarly covered by our 'MapHist' colleague Vladimiro Valerio (et al.).  For the other towns one could use various older - but still accessible in 1606 onwards - maps in isolarii, Braun & Hogenberg, Valegio/Valesio, and/or the latter's copper-plate map-views re-issued in 1713 by Raffaello Savonarola (pseudonym of Alphonsus Lasor a Varea), etc.; then there are the web-sites of the cultural bodies of the cities concerned, leading to their archives/libraries/museums containing older plans.

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives']

-----Original Message-----
From: m-ark@libero.it [mailto:m-ark@libero.it] Sent: 25 February 2004 10:03
To: maphist
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Town plans for Caravaggio needed

Dear "creator",


for Naples he certainly saw the "Pianta Du Pérac-Lafréry", a bird's eye view published in 1566, and the "Neapolis urbs ad verissimam effigiem" published by Carlo Theti, an engineer, in 1560. The Theti map has a great number (158) of toponymys in legend: porte, chiese, Palazzi... 
These are the two interesting documents before the redaction of Alessandro Baratta panorama (first edition 1627, only one incomplete copy at British Library, other editions 1629, 1670 etc. have different copies). 
If you want other infos write at my own address,

Best wishes,


Marco Iuliano
Centro studi sull'iconografia della città europea Palazzo Gravina - Via Monteoliveto 3
80134 Napoli

> Dear MapHisters,
> 	The French comics creator who needed the Tempesta map asked 
> me to thank the members who kindly showed him where to look. When 
> asked for further information, he sent this along:
> 
> >	> Well, the main character of my story is the painter Caravaggio.
> >Born in 1572 in a village called Caravaggio (near Milano), he arrives in
> >Roma in 1592 and leaves it in 1606, wanted for murder by the pope police.
> >Then, he goes to Napoli, spends a year in the island of Malta, goes to
> >Syracuse, Palermo and Messine, before going back to Roma and finally dies on
> >a tuscan beach called Porto Ercole.
> >If you can ask about any maps of these cities and if it is not too much to
> >ask, it would be very useful to me to see maps of these cities at these
> >periods (if they exist). This is the next step of my preparatory work, for
> >the moment I'm reading as much as I can about Roma because it is the city
> >where he stays 14 years.
> 
> -- 
>   The Observatory, ABAA
> 200 North Franklin Street
> Juneau, Alaska 99801
> 907/586-9676
> fax 907/586-9606
> deelong@alaska.com
> http://www.observatorybooks.com
> Since 1977
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
> 



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Curt Griggs" <curt@oldmaps.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Sale Catalog Available
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:54:35 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Old World Auctions is now online with Sale 106, closing on Wednesday, March<BR>3rd at 10pm Eastern time.&nbsp; You may order a printed catalog by contacting us at</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000><A href="mailto:marti@oldworldauctions.com">marti@oldworldauctions.com</A> or simply view the online sale catalog at</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000><A href="http://www.oldworldauctions.com">http://www.oldworldauctions.com</A>.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#0000ff></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>The auction has over 650 lots of rare and vintage maps and charts, atlases, reference books and related material.<BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000>Regards,<BR><BR>Curt &amp; Marti Griggs<BR><BR>Old World Auctions<BR>Old Maps, LLC<BR>1-800-664-7757<BR>1-928-282-3944</FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#0000ff size=3></FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#0000ff size=3></FONT><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <UL>
  <LI></LI></UL></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Atlas cases 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:20:30 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Been out of the business too long so I have to ask for help.&nbsp; Any clues where one can obtain used atlas cases inexpensively in the Mid Atlantic region of the US?&nbsp; The Tredyffrin Easttown History Club really needs to get its meager atlas collection off the top of filing cabinets in a public and largely unsupervised area in a school district building.&nbsp;&nbsp; Replies to <A href="mailto:jbpost@netreach.net">mailto:jbpost@netreach.net</A></FONT>.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Many thanks for any suggestions.&nbsp; The hard part of finding such things is "inexpensively."</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J. B. Post </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*Lismaps" <lis-maps@jiscmail.ac.uk>,
	"*Liber-GdC" <libergdc-dg@nls.uk>, "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>,
	"*Maps-L" <MAPS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: [MapHist] 'Maps and Society' - change to the programme
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:23:47 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

{Please excuse cross-posting}

Please note that, because the speaker originally scheduled for April 22nd has had to withdraw, there is a *new speaker and topic* for that evening.

Details of the final three talks are as follows:


                              'MAPS AND SOCIETY'

                                The Warburg Institute

                           Thirteenth Series: 2003-2004
                        *************************

Lectures in the history of cartography convened by Catherine Delano Smith (Institute of Historical Research) and Tony Campbell (formerly Map Library, British Library). Meetings are held on selected Thursdays at the Warburg Institute, School of Advanced Study, University of London,Woburn Square, London WC1H OAB at 5.00 pm. Admission is free. Meetings are followed by refreshments. All are most welcome. Enquiries: +44 (0) 20 8346 5112 (Dr Delano Smith) or < t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk >.

March 18.  Christopher Fleet (National Library of Scotland, Edinburgh) Analysing Image Colour and Content to Infer Map Authorship: A Case Study of the Blaeu Atlas of Scotland and its Sources.

April 22.   Dr Zur Shalev (Princeton University) The Church Cartographical: Propaganda and Controversy in Early Modern Ecclesiastical Mapping.  {*Please note that this is a change to the programme*}

May 27.   Dr Scott Westrem  (City University of New York)  Calculation, Delineation, Depiction, Inscription: the Practicalities of Medieval Mapmaking.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This programme has been made possible through the generous sponsorship of The International  Map Collectors' Society, Jonathan Potter of Jonathan Potter Ltd., and Laurence Worms of Ash Rare Books, and is supported by Imago Mundi.  DISPLAYS for each lecture, at the Royal Geographical Society, are arranged by Francis Herbert, Hon FRGS. Note that the Society's Library and Map Room will be closed until Spring 2004, although both the Picture Library and Archives remain open by appointment.  See<http://www.rgs.org> - 'Collections'; 'Unlocking the Archives Project'.

-------------------------------------------------------------- Please note that the web version of the programme is at a new URL < http://www.maphistory.info/warburgprog.html > [the 'Map History' site has moved].  That URL can be bookmarked, as it will always contain the current programme.  For a comprehensive list of talks and meetings in the history of cartography, see John Docktor's 'Calendar' < http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/index.htm > --------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Campbell <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: "*MapHist" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Cc: <maproom@mcwetboy.net>
Subject: [MapHist] The 'Maproom' weblog
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:05:07 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

If you do not already know 'The MapRoom, a weblog about maps', run by Jonathan Crowe, I can recommend it < http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ >.

As a weblog should, it offers a personal and lively view of what is being described.  Although The MapRoom is concerned with maps in general, there are regular entries for non-current subjects.  Some of these were certainly unknown to me.  If you do not want to read everything, you can now select from a new 'Category List', which includes 'Antique Maps'.

And why not send him material, to help spread the word about our subject <maproom@mcwetboy.net> ?

[No, I am not, unfortunately, in his pay]

***************************************** Tony Campbell
76 Ockendon Road
London N1 3NW
UK

t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk

Tel: 020 7359 6477  International: +44 20 7359 6477 ****************************************** 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/
[NB. New address August 2003]

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:36:43 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] London Map Fairs at the Rembrandt Hotel
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["MapForum.com" <mapforum@btinternet.com>]

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:42:26 +0000

MapForum.Com has been asked to forward the following message to its readers:

On Sunday March 14 2004 London Map Fairs Limited are holding the first of their Antique Map & Print Fairs at the Rembrandt Hotel in South Kensington, opposite the Victoria & Albert Museum, open 10.30 ­ 17.30.
Over twenty dealers from the UK, Europe and America will be exhibiting.
Admission is free and all are welcome.

For the dates of the fairs later in the year, including the two-day fair held in conjuction with IMCoS in June, please visit their web site at:

http://www.londonmapfairs.com

The London Map Fairs replace the monthly map fairs previously held at the Bonnington Hotel.



--
The Editor
MapForum.Com

http://www.mapforum.com

mapforum@btinternet.com

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>