X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:42:33 +0100
From: Wouter Bracke <wouter.bracke@kbr.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030821
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Festschrift Lisette Danckaert
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.5.0
X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear all,

Next year, Lisette Danckaert, former head of our Map Room and as you all know still very active, will become 75. Her former colleagues at the Royal Library of Belgium would like to offer her a Festschrift on the occasion. The volume should only contain original articles on (the history of) cartography of about 15 pages long. It would be published by the Belgian Association of Librarians and Archivists. Deadline for the articles: September 2005. Everyone interested in contributing to this volume can write to me: Wouter Bracke, Map Room, Royal Library of Belgium, Keizerslaan 4, 1000 Brussels, fax 0032 2 5195742; tel. 0032 2 5195743.
Hope to hear from you all,

Wouter Bracke
Map Room
Royal Library of Belgium

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:51:16 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["D. Franco" <dmfranco@hotmail.com>]

Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:00:13 -0600

I'm an art and computer teacher in the US and I am trying to find these two altlases in MrSid format or very large tiff or jpeg files.

Please help me. I'm trying to find large MrSid files (or similar files) for the Atlases of G. Mercator and J. Blaeu.

I have used other maps in the past for use in my art classes.

Please help me.

Dennis Franco

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:52:06 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Portolan Chart Reference List. (Updated 15 February 2001
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["Dan Koch" <daniel.koch@rcn.com>]


Dear sir,

Tooley, Maps and Mapmakers, pp16-18 has a handy reference list of some of the better-known Portalan makers active in Europe from the 14th-17th c.

Dan Koch, Chicago Map Society member

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "tony campbell" <t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Cc: <dmfranco@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:26:20 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dennis Franco,

You don't indicate which parts of the world you are interested in, in connection with the Mercator and Blaeu atlases.

I cannot answer about high resolution images from the Mercator atlas, but if you go to the 'Map History' site < http://www.maphistory.info/ > and use the Freefind search box for 'Blaeu', you will find some links to high res.
sites.  The relevant links will be those ending "/image....html".

I hope you will find something relevant.

Best wishes

Tony Campbell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>" <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.


> Non-member submission from ["D. Franco" <dmfranco@hotmail.com>]
>
> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:00:13 -0600
>
> I'm an art and computer teacher in the US and I am trying to find these two
> altlases in MrSid format or very large tiff or jpeg files.
>
> Please help me. I'm trying to find large MrSid files (or similar files)
> for the Atlases of G. Mercator and J. Blaeu.
>
> I have used other maps in the past for use in my art classes.
>
> Please help me.
>
> Dennis Franco


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:34:05 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: [MapHist] digital Blaeu and Mercator atlases
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
I lost the email earlier today, regarding availability of these in CD or some similar format. A couple of suggestions:

1. Blaeu atlas online- UCLA 
libraries:  <http://www.library.ucla.edu/yrl/reference/maps/blaeu/>

2. Mercator atlas- Octavo editions: 
<http://www.octavo.com/editions/mcrats/index.html>. The high resolution research edition of this is a bit pricey. Maybe someone else has added resources, or could fine a less expensive copy, if your school system can't fund.

Hope this helps a bit.

            Joel Kovarsky

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:07:27 -0500
From: "George R. Crossman" <gcrossman@megapipe.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] A Question Concerning Atlas Indexes
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl



> Dear Maphisters,
>
> As many of you know, Volume I of Juergen Espenhorst's history of the
> great German handatlases of the 19th and late 20th century was published
> last year (Petermann's Planet), and my translation of Volume II is well under
> way.
>
> In the course of the work on Volume II a question has arisen as to
> the genesis of atlas indexes. By index in this context is meant a list of
> names complete with coordinates keyed to the map grid which enable the
> user to find the location on the referenced map.
>
> The earliest such index that we have been able to identify thus far is
> dated 1824. It is found in:
> C.G. Reichard, Orbis Terrarum Antiquus, cum Thesauro Topigraphico,
> (Norimberga: Friederici Campii, 1824). This atlas is No. 3286 in the
> Philips-LeGear list.
>
> We would like to ask whether anyone is aware of an atlas containing
> such an index which is dated earlier than this 1824 Reichard work.
>
> George Crossman
>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 09:29:22 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] A Question Concerning Atlas Indexes
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear George

The first atlases with alphabetical tables of toponyms are of course the editions of Ptolemy's Geographia, from 1477 on. The alphabetical list refers to the co-ordinates, these are indicated on the maps.
Mercator follows the same system, with his 'Index locorum' after each of the four sections of his Atlas (1585-89). These Indexes give all toponyms for a certain region in alphabetical order, with the co-ordinates. The co-ordinates are presented as "31.40", meaning longitude of 31 degrees and latitude of 44 degrees. However, there is no reference to the map, thus it takes some time before you have found the map on which the place is depicted.

Lists of places names with reference grids instead of co-ordinates were used by Nicolaas Visscher in the late 17th century. (See atlas Vis 13, Vis 17 of c. 1696, Vis 21 of c. 1702, Vis 23). Here the alphabetical lists are per map, and not for the whole atlas. His reference grid follows the present system, with capital letters ABC and lower case letters abc (nowadays, mostly letters + numbers are used).

It is an intesting topic, as far as I know never studied. Maybe the 1824 is the first atlas with a list for the complete atlas with reference to the map number + reference grid, but the idea of such a list is of course much older.

with friendly greetings

Peter van der Krogt


At 02:07 3-12-2004, you wrote:


> > Dear Maphisters,
> >
> > As many of you know, Volume I of Juergen Espenhorst's history of the
> > great German handatlases of the 19th and late 20th century was published
> > last year (Petermann's Planet), and my translation of Volume II is well 
> under
> > way.
> >
> > In the course of the work on Volume II a question has arisen as to
> > the genesis of atlas indexes. By index in this context is meant a list of
> > names complete with coordinates keyed to the map grid which enable the
> > user to find the location on the referenced map.
> >
> > The earliest such index that we have been able to identify thus far is
> > dated 1824. It is found in:
> > C.G. Reichard, Orbis Terrarum Antiquus, cum Thesauro Topigraphico,
> > (Norimberga: Friederici Campii, 1824). This atlas is No. 3286 in the
> > Philips-LeGear list.
> >
> > We would like to ask whether anyone is aware of an atlas containing
> > such an index which is dated earlier than this 1824 Reichard work.
> >
> > George Crossman
> >
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:06:10 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] A Question Concerning Atlas Indexes  
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Bob's message containt an illegal header:

>From: Robert Karrow <karrowr@newberry.org>
>Subject: Re: [MapHist] A Question Concerning Atlas Indexes
>
>A slight correction to Peter's account of lists of place-names in 
>atlases:  The place names in editions of Ptolemy are not in alphabetical, 
>but in "geographical" order, i.e. by Ptolemaic region and then more or 
>less systematically around coastlines, etc.

(Peter's reaction since he happens to be the list-owner and sends this bounced message through to Maphist:
Bob has right, my excuse for this error is that here at home I have only a facsimile edition of Mercator's atlas and not of a Ptolemy edition, Peter).



>At 09:29 AM 12/3/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>>Dear George
>>
>>The first atlases with alphabetical tables of toponyms are of course the 
>>editions of Ptolemy's Geographia, from 1477 on. The alphabetical list 
>>refers to the co-ordinates, these are indicated on the maps.
>
>Robert W. Karrow, Jr., Curator of Special Collections and Curator of Maps,
>Roger & Julie Baskes Department of Special Collections, The Newberry 
>Library, 60 W. Walton Street, Chicago, Illinois 60610-7324.  Tel: 
>312-255-3554.  FAX: 312-255-3646.  E-Mail: KarrowR@newberry.org
>
>For a partial catalog of our cartographic holdings, see 
>www.biblioserver.com/newberry

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri,  3 Dec 2004 18:57:36 -0700
From: maps@americamaps.com
Subject: [MapHist] Old Maps and Prints new website
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

DO NOT USE YOUR EMAIL REPLY FUNCTION TO RESPOND TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.
MAKE SURE ANY MESSAGE COMES TO ME AND IS NOT SENT TO THE ENTIRE LIST

Dear MapHist Readers,

Old Maps and Prints is pleased to announce our completely new website at <http://www.americamaps.com> showcasing maps of the Americas, the United States and individual states and regions -- our speciality for 30 years.
Starting with a select number of maps in all price ranges, the site will expand in the coming months. 

Preston and Petra Figley
Old Maps and Prints
Fort Worth, Texas
 
maps@americamaps.com 



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 21:01:27 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground
  railroad?
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
This message had something illegal in the header. Peter.
P.S. Responses please to the list (and cc to Joel). I think most of us will be interested to hear more about this topic.

From: "Harold Osher" <osherh@hotmail.com> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: "FOLLOW THE DRINKING GOURD"; CODED MAP TO THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD?
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 14:27:28 -0500

MAPHISTERS,

The following is self-explanatory.  Responses, directed either to me or to Joel, will be greatly appreciated.

Harold L. Osher, MD
Osher Map Library, University of Southern Maine 314 Forest Avenue, Portland, ME 04104
Tel: (207) 780-4850 Fax: (207) 780-5310 email: osherh@hotmail.com
<http://www.usm.maine.edu/maps>www.usm.maine.edu/maps


My son-in-law, Joel Bresler, is researching "Follow the Drinking Gourd", believed to be a song used by the Underground Railroad to convey geographic information to escaping slaves. The song supposedly directs slaves starting in the Mobile, AL area to travel north via the banks of the Tombigbee, reach the headwaters of the Tombigbee and travel across the divide to the Tennessee, and then carry on until the Tennessee joins the Ohio. He has several questions that relate to geography, nature and natural features described in the songs and would welcome your assistance.

FIRST VERSE

When the sun come back,
When the firs' quail call,
Then the time is come
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

Standard interpretation: "When the sun comes back" = winter and spring when the altitude of the sun is higher each day at noon.

Question: mightn't it just as easily mean when the days get longer?

Standard interpretation: When the firs' quail call = the call of migratory quail, that winter in the southern U.S.A.

Question: I believe quail are in Alabama year round. The calls are most likely from roughly March to August, the breeding season. Confirmation welcome.

Standard interpretation: The best time to travel north along the Tombigbee River would be to start in the winter from Mobile, AL to end in the winter at the Ohio River, and walk across the frozen river.

Question: I am told that very few river dams existed during the slave period. Many of the tributaries to the Tombigbee and other rivers flooded multiple times per year, usually from Jan-May. Many places along the river are swampy, and there are lots of tributaries, increasing the difficulty of a winter escape. Crossing in summer and early fall would be easier. 
Confirmation welcome.

Standard interpretation: The Ohio is too wide and swift for most swimmers, and the Underground Railroad struggled with the problem of how to help slaves make the crossing, deciding winter crossings (on a frozen river) were best.

Question: Per one informant, "The Ohio River, now changed by locks and dams, didn't flow as deeply in the 19th century as it does today, so wading across during dry periods would have been possible."

THIRD VERSE

The riva ends a-tween two hills,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
'Nuther riva on the other side
Follers the drinkin' gou'd.

In this verse, the Tombigbee ends "a-tween two hills." Upon reaching the headwaters of the Tombigbee River, runaways travel over the divide, and link up with the Tennessee River. Suggestions on the identity of the "two hills" would be welcome.

Wha the little riva
Meet the grea' big un,
The ole man waits-
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

"The little riva" (Tennessee) "meet the grea' big un" (the Ohio.) Slaves will be met by a representative of the Underground Railroad.

In 1942, Carl Carmer published a version of the song in "America Sings", oriented towards a children's audience. The lyrics differ in key places from the standard version, above. Carmer spent six years in Alabama, so this might be an important variant collected from the field OR it might be a version he simplified for his juvenile audience.

Where the river ends (note: the Tombigbee) Just between two hills
Go on to the right
Follow the drinking gourd

Where the great big lake
Flows into the stream
There the old man waits
Follow the drinking gourd.

Possible explanations for "Go on to the right" and "great big lake flows into the stream" would be welcome. (Remember that we are concerned with 1850s topography, not more recent manmade lakes, etc.)

Last, I am wondering if there is a web site or program where I could input the longitude and latitude of various different cities and from that compute the square miles/kilometers bounded by the irregular polygon defined by the city locations.



Joel Bresler
250 E. Emerson Rd.
Lexington, MA 02420
USA

781-862-4104 (Telephone & FAX)
<http://by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001&a=5dacb22c3c8615e52544817a890904c4&mailto=1&to=joel.br@verizon.net&msg=MSG1101832093.25&start=8215258&len=5450&src=&type=x>joel.br@verizon.net 


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Overlee" <overlee@verizon.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground  railroad?
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:27:46 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [141.154.188.60] at Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:27:49 -0600
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
The only city you mention is Mobile.  The coordinates for that place are 30 degrees 41 min. N by 88 degrees 4 min. W.  My convenient source is the Columbia Gazetteer of the World.  Martin Torodash ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>" <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground railroad?


> This message had something illegal in the header. Peter.
> P.S. Responses please to the list (and cc to Joel). I think most of us 
> will be interested to hear more about this topic.
>
> From: "Harold Osher" <osherh@hotmail.com>
> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
> Subject: "FOLLOW THE DRINKING GOURD"; CODED MAP TO THE UNDERGROUND 
> RAILROAD?
> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 14:27:28 -0500
>
> MAPHISTERS,
>
> The following is self-explanatory.  Responses, directed either to me or to 
> Joel, will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Harold L. Osher, MD
> Osher Map Library, University of Southern Maine
> 314 Forest Avenue, Portland, ME 04104
> Tel: (207) 780-4850 Fax: (207) 780-5310
> email: osherh@hotmail.com
> <http://www.usm.maine.edu/maps>www.usm.maine.edu/maps
>
>
> My son-in-law, Joel Bresler, is researching "Follow the Drinking Gourd", 
> believed to be a song used by the Underground Railroad to convey 
> geographic information to escaping slaves. The song supposedly directs 
> slaves starting in the Mobile, AL area to travel north via the banks of 
> the Tombigbee, reach the headwaters of the Tombigbee and travel across the 
> divide to the Tennessee, and then carry on until the Tennessee joins the 
> Ohio. He has several questions that relate to geography, nature and 
> natural features described in the songs and would welcome your assistance.
>
> FIRST VERSE
>
> When the sun come back,
> When the firs' quail call,
> Then the time is come
> Foller the drinkin' gou'd.
>
> Standard interpretation: "When the sun comes back" = winter and spring 
> when the altitude of the sun is higher each day at noon.
>
> Question: mightn't it just as easily mean when the days get longer?
>
> Standard interpretation: When the firs' quail call = the call of migratory 
> quail, that winter in the southern U.S.A.
>
> Question: I believe quail are in Alabama year round. The calls are most 
> likely from roughly March to August, the breeding season. Confirmation 
> welcome.
>
> Standard interpretation: The best time to travel north along the Tombigbee 
> River would be to start in the winter from Mobile, AL to end in the winter 
> at the Ohio River, and walk across the frozen river.
>
> Question: I am told that very few river dams existed during the slave 
> period. Many of the tributaries to the Tombigbee and other rivers flooded 
> multiple times per year, usually from Jan-May. Many places along the river 
> are swampy, and there are lots of tributaries, increasing the difficulty 
> of a winter escape. Crossing in summer and early fall would be easier. 
> Confirmation welcome.
>
> Standard interpretation: The Ohio is too wide and swift for most swimmers, 
> and the Underground Railroad struggled with the problem of how to help 
> slaves make the crossing, deciding winter crossings (on a frozen river) 
> were best.
>
> Question: Per one informant, "The Ohio River, now changed by locks and 
> dams, didn't flow as deeply in the 19th century as it does today, so 
> wading across during dry periods would have been possible."
>
> THIRD VERSE
>
> The riva ends a-tween two hills,
> Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
> 'Nuther riva on the other side
> Follers the drinkin' gou'd.
>
> In this verse, the Tombigbee ends "a-tween two hills." Upon reaching the 
> headwaters of the Tombigbee River, runaways travel over the divide, and 
> link up with the Tennessee River. Suggestions on the identity of the "two 
> hills" would be welcome.
>
> Wha the little riva
> Meet the grea' big un,
> The ole man waits-
> Foller the drinkin' gou'd.
>
> "The little riva" (Tennessee) "meet the grea' big un" (the Ohio.) Slaves 
> will be met by a representative of the Underground Railroad.
>
> In 1942, Carl Carmer published a version of the song in "America Sings", 
> oriented towards a children's audience. The lyrics differ in key places 
> from the standard version, above. Carmer spent six years in Alabama, so 
> this might be an important variant collected from the field OR it might be 
> a version he simplified for his juvenile audience.
>
> Where the river ends (note: the Tombigbee)
> Just between two hills
> Go on to the right
> Follow the drinking gourd
>
> Where the great big lake
> Flows into the stream
> There the old man waits
> Follow the drinking gourd.
>
> Possible explanations for "Go on to the right" and "great big lake flows 
> into the stream" would be welcome. (Remember that we are concerned with 
> 1850s topography, not more recent manmade lakes, etc.)
>
> Last, I am wondering if there is a web site or program where I could input 
> the longitude and latitude of various different cities and from that 
> compute the square miles/kilometers bounded by the irregular polygon 
> defined by the city locations.
>
>
>
> Joel Bresler
> 250 E. Emerson Rd.
> Lexington, MA 02420
> USA
>
> 781-862-4104 (Telephone & FAX)
> <http://by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001&a=5dacb22c3c8615e52544817a890904c4&mailto=1&to=joel.br@verizon.net&msg=MSG1101832093.25&start=8215258&len=5450&src=&type=x>joel.br@verizon.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 16:13:33 -0500
From: John Woram <john@woram.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the  underground
 railroad?
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>

>I am wondering if there is a web site or program where I could input the 
>longitude and latitude of various different cities and from that compute 
>the square miles/kilometers bounded by the irregular polygon defined by 
>the city locations.

Fugawi mapping software--or just about any hand-held GPS--will give you the distance between any two points defined by their lat. and long. So it would be easy to get the point-to-point distances around the perimeter of the polygon. From that you could calculate the enclosed area. Do a google for "area of irregular polygon" for various methods of doing so.





_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 16:58:44 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the 
  underground railroad?
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>
<body>
<font size=3>At 04:13 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I am wondering if there is a web site or program where I could input the longitude and latitude of various different cities and from that compute the square miles/kilometers bounded by the irregular polygon defined by the city locations.</font></blockquote><br><br>
It sounds like similar programs are active at other institutions: &lt;<a href="http://www.ncsu.edu/meridian/win2004/gis/3.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.ncsu.edu/meridian/win2004/gis/3.html</a>&gt;.
That particular institution uses ArcView &lt;<a href="http://www.esri.com/software/arcview/" eudora="autourl">http://www.esri.com/software/arcview/</a>&gt;.&nbsp; This is a product of ESRI, who also published Rumsey &amp; Punt's book, <u>Cartographica Extraordinaire</u>. <br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joel Kovarsky<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joel Kovarsky<br><br>
</body>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: vladimiro valerio <vladimir@iuav.it>
Subject: [MapHist] A Question Concerning an Atlas   
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 23:34:55 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-rich>Dear Maphisters,

I received the following request by an italian reserarcher. He is intersted in knowing a location in European (preferably Italian) Libraries of the following atlas:


<flushboth>Pieter Goos, <italic>Nieuwe Groote Zee–Spiegel</italic>, Amsterdam 1662 


He is particuarly interested in the portulan text and in the 25 maps of the third part of the
Zee–Spiegel.<fontfamily><param>Times New Roman</param> 

</fontfamily>

If you like, just not to bother the entire list, you may send the message to Michele Castelnovi 

<bigger>michelecastelnovi@hotmail.com</bigger>



Thanks


Vladimiro

</flushboth>

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


Vladimiro Valerio

Office:

Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura

San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer

30125 Venezia

tel. + 39 041 2571418

e-mail vladimir@iuav.it


home:

Via R. Morghen, 88

80129 Napoli

tel. & fax +39 081 5568952

mobile 335 403807

WWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWW </x-rich>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:21:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Bill Thoen <bthoen@gisnet.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Cc: osherh@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground
  railroad?
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl> wrote:

> Question: Per one informant, "The Ohio River, now changed by locks and 
> dams, didn't flow as deeply in the 19th century as it does today, so wading 
> across during dry periods would have been possible."

That has a ring of truth in it. The Platte River in Colorado used to run much wider before the 20th century. There were places where it was a just a mile-wide muddy bog ("...too muddy to drink and and too wet to plow", it was said.) Since then the runoff from cities along the river and other man-made changes in its flow has deepened and channelized it.  The Ohio may have changed in similar ways for similar reasons.

- Bill Thoen


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist-digest@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:21:12 -0400
Subject: [MapHist] Re: Follow the Drinking Gourd
From: Brian Crawley <bscalled@earthlink.net>
To: <maphist-digest@geog.uu.nl>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl> wrote:

> Question: Per one informant, "The Ohio River, now changed by locks and
> dams, didn't flow as deeply in the 19th century as it does today, so wading
> across during dry periods would have been possible."

I grew up in Cincinnati, where one of the main roads into the city follows the course of an old disused canal, running right beside the Ohio River, in clear sight of it, a few hundred yards from the bank and halfway up a slope.
That much is certain. I think I remember being told, on a long-ago field trip, the seasonal unreliability of the Ohio's depth was the reason for the canal being dug; and that the Ohio was neither as deep nor as wide as it is today. If it is of use I can find out the name of the road, I've forgotten it now.

Brian Crawley

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:26:31 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: John Day <day@std.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the
 underground   railroad?
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
>On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, by way of List-owner MapHist 
><list-owner@maphist.nl> wrote:
>
>>  Question: Per one informant, "The Ohio River, now changed by locks and
>>  dams, didn't flow as deeply in the 19th century as it does today, so wading
>>  across during dry periods would have been possible."
>
>That has a ring of truth in it. The Platte River in Colorado used to run
>much wider before the 20th century. There were places where it was a just
>a mile-wide muddy bog ("...too muddy to drink and and too wet to plow", it
>was said.) Since then the runoff from cities along the river and other
>man-made changes in its flow has deepened and channelized it.  The Ohio
>may have changed in similar ways for similar reasons.

The Platte is a very different river from the Ohio.  The geology the two flow over is quite different. I know parts of the Platte that are virtually dry parts of the year.  By the time the Underground Railroad was running, there had been major boat (and steamboat) traffic on the Ohio all the way from Pittsburgh to Cairo. And while steamboats had shallow draft, it wasn't *that* shallow! ;-) I really doubt there was anywhere along the Ohio that a person could wade across.

There is an article in the December Smithsonian on the Underground Railroad that indicates that swimming the Ohio was considered quite dangerous.  Generally, conductors would try to arrange boats to get runaways across the River.  The Underground Railroad museum in Cincinnati mention in the article might be a good source of information.

Take care,
John
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Wildeman, Diederick" <dwildeman@scheepvaartmuseum.nl>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:19:01 +0100 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dennis,

High resolutions scans of maps from Blaeu atlases can be found on the Dutch site of the "Geheugen van Nederland":
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/gvnnl/all/5D0B323C-DFED-4ED6-BECA-AD6583F CE825.html

This site has scans of all the maps form the so called Atlas Van Loon in the Nederlands Scheepvaartmuseum in Amsterdam (this collection was named after the first, 17th century owner).

It contains the maps from:  the Atlas Mayor (Dutch edition in 6 volumes), Dutch Town Books (2 volumes Northern and Southern Netherlands), Italian Town Books (3 volumes only, Rome, Papal State, Naples & Sciily), 2 volumes, France and Switserland, from the French edition of Atlas Mayor and two sea atlasses from other mapmakers, Goos (1676) and Janssonius (1657).

I hope this information will be useful,

Yours sincerely,

Diederick Wildeman
conservator zeevaartkunde & bibliotheekcollecties / curator navigation & library collections

Nederlands Scheepvaartmuseum Amsterdam / Netherlands Maritime Museum Amsterdam
Kattenburgerplein 1
1018 KK  Amsterdam
Nederland /  Netherlands
telephone: ... 31 (0)20 - 52 32 251
fax	: ... 31 (0)20 - 52 32 213
e mail	: dwildeman@scheepvaartmuseum.nl 






> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van:	tony campbell [SMTP:t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk]
> Verzonden:	donderdag 2 december 2004 22:26
> Aan:	maphist@geog.uu.nl
> CC:	dmfranco@hotmail.com
> Onderwerp:	Re: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.
> 
> Dennis Franco,
> 
> You don't indicate which parts of the world you are interested in, in
> connection with the Mercator and Blaeu atlases.
> 
> I cannot answer about high resolution images from the Mercator atlas, but
> if
> you go to the 'Map History' site < http://www.maphistory.info/ > and use
> the
> Freefind search box for 'Blaeu', you will find some links to high res.
> sites.  The relevant links will be those ending "/image....html".
> 
> I hope you will find something relevant.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Tony Campbell
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>"
> <owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:51 PM
> Subject: [MapHist] G. Mercator & J. Blaeu Atlas - Please Help me.
> 
> 
> > Non-member submission from ["D. Franco" <dmfranco@hotmail.com>]
> >
> > Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:00:13 -0600
> >
> > I'm an art and computer teacher in the US and I am trying to find these
> two
> > altlases in MrSid format or very large tiff or jpeg files.
> >
> > Please help me. I'm trying to find large MrSid files (or similar files)
> > for the Atlases of G. Mercator and J. Blaeu.
> >
> > I have used other maps in the past for use in my art classes.
> >
> > Please help me.
> >
> > Dennis Franco
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 09:24:04 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: RE: [MapHist] A Question Concerning an Atlas   
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from ["Sjoerd de Meer" <s.demeer@maritiemmuseum.nl>]


According to Koeman, Atlantes Neerlandici( IV) : Biography of = terrestial, maritime and celestial atlases and pilot books published in = the Netherlands up to 1880 (Amsterdam 1970),  p. 202 and p. 215-216  = (Goos 44A/B) the Zee-Spiegel. The 1662 copy, third part according to = Koeman is available in UB Amsterdam, the Scheepvaartmuseum Amsterdam  = and the British Museum  (Dutch edition)=20



--------------------------------------=20 Sjoerd de Meer=20
curator
Maritiem Museum Rotterdam=20
Leuvehaven 1, 3011 EA Rotterdam=20
Postbus 988,  3000 AZ Rotterdam=20

T  +31(0)10 4029240=20
F  +31(0)10 4137342=20
E  s.demeer@maritiemmuseum.nl=20
Bezoek onze website op:     www.maritiemmuseum.nl Bekijk de museumcollectie:  www.maritiemdigitaal.nl=20 -----------------------------------------=20





=20
  =20

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl =
[mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl]Namens vladimiro valerio Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 23:35 Aan: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Onderwerp: [MapHist] A Question Concerning an Atlas=20


Dear Maphisters,=20
I received the following request by an italian reserarcher. He is = intersted in knowing a location in European (preferably Italian) = Libraries of the following atlas:=20

Pieter Goos, Nieuwe Groote Zee=96Spiegel, Amsterdam 1662=20

He is particuarly interested in the portulan text and in the 25 maps of = the third part of the Zee=96Spiegel.=20

If you like, just not to bother the entire list, you may send the = message to Michele Castelnovi=20
michelecastelnovi@hotmail.com=20


Thanks=20

Vladimiro=20

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW=20

Vladimiro Valerio=20
Office:=20
Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura=20 San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer=20
30125 Venezia=20
tel. + 39 041 2571418=20
e-mail vladimir@iuav.it=20

home:=20
Via R. Morghen, 88=20
80129 Napoli=20
tel. & fax +39 081 5568952=20
mobile 335 403807=20
WWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWW

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: blr@teamspirit.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:41:16 -0800
To: maptrade@raremaps.com, maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Barry Ruderman <blr@raremaps.com>
Subject: [MapHist] Joost Hartgers Virginia Nieu Neder-landt...
Cc: "Ashley Baynton-Williams" <ashley.bw@btinternet.com>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at teamspirit.com
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>
<body>
Please excuse the cross postings:<br><br> I am researching a map entitled:<br><br> <b><i>Virginia.<br>
Nieu Neder-landt.<br>
Nieu Engelandt.<br><br>
</i></b>The map matches in general description the map by Joost Hartgers from his <b><i>Beschrijvinghe van Virginia, Nieuw Nederlandt, Nieuw Engelandt </i></b>(although Burden notes that Asher did not believe this map was properly bound into the text).<br><br> The size and general appearance match the Burden illustration (The Mapping of North America, entry 304--size 170 x 365 mm).&nbsp; However, there are a number of subtle differences:<br><br> Paquiwock is spelled on Paquiw<br>
Irocois Meer. is shown only as Irocois<br><br> There are a number of other subtle differences.<br><br> I would be most grateful to anyone who can point me to any reproductions or other information on this map.&nbsp; Thank you in advance.<br> Image available on request.<br><br>
Barry Ruderman<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Barry Lawrence Ruderman<br>
Antique Maps
Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (858) 551-8500<br>
<a href="http://www.raremaps.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.raremaps.com</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (858) 551-8593<br>
blr@raremaps.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1298 Prospect, Suite 2C<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; La Jolla, CA&nbsp; 92037</body>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:34:34 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Joel Bresler <joel.br@verizon.net>
Subject: [MapHist] Re: Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground
  railroad? 
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [68.163.234.251] at Mon, 6 Dec 2004 23:34:39 -0600
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear friends:

I have decided to join your engaging discussion directly. Thanks for all who have contributed their comments and suggestions. Ed Dahl was good enough to relay the following insightful message:

>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:27 AM
>Subject: Re: Fw: Follow the Drinking Gourd: Coded map to the underground 
>railroad?
>
>Hello The quick answer to your query is that I have not done the specific 
>research to confirm or dispel this interpretation. I have however heard 
>many interpretations of this song, and feel, that like the quilt codes, 
>what is accurate is that this was a means of encouraging flight, rather 
>than a specific roadmap to freedom. Since not all freedom seekers were 
>departing from the same plantation, nor even same state, it's accuracy 
>would largely depend on where they were at the time of their decision.

<snip>

>Sincerely, Rosemary Sadlier
>President of the Board of Directors
>Ontario Black History Society

<snip>

Two comments on Ms. Sadlier's post. First, I agree that the song may well have been designed to encourage escape. But this song -- as opposed to the quilt codes -- does actually include relatively detailed information that might be helpful in navigation. Also, we know that the original song was much longer than the version passed down to us. H. B. Parks wrote in his 1928 paper:

>The Negro at College Station (note:one of Parks' informants) said that the 
>song had many verses which he could not remember. He quoted a number 
>which, either by fault of memory or secret meaning, are unintelligible and 
>are omitted.

None of Parks' working papers seem to have survived, so we are not likely to have a chance to decipher these "secret" or "unintelligible" verses. 
Second, Parks wrote,

>Now my birthplace is in the North and I also belong to a family that took 
>considerable part in the underground railroad movement; so I wrote about 
>this story to the older members of the family in the North. One of my 
>great-uncles, who was connected with the railroad movement, remembered 
>that in the records of the Anti-Slavery Society there was a story of a 
>peg-legged sailor, known as Peg Leg Joe...

Essentially, he is treating the song as history, not folklore. So even allowing for 60 years of (haphazard) oral transmittion from the close of the Civil War to the 1920s, I am trying to scrutinize its contents -- the language, the geography, etc. -- to ascertain as much as possible, what is history, what is folklore, and what are Texas tall tales.

I thank you for your help and will look forward to our discussion.

Best,

Joel

P.S. Anyone interested in the quilt codes can click here  http://www.hartcottagequilts.com/railroad.htm and here http://www.historiccamdencounty.com/ccnews11_doc_01a.shtml for healthy doses of skepticism.




Joel Bresler
250 E. Emerson Rd.
Lexington, MA 02420
USA

781-862-4104 (Telephone & FAX)
joel.br@verizon.net 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "van der heijden" <h.a.vander.heijden@12move.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Festschrift Lisette Danckaert
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:46:57 +0100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Geachte Heer Bracke, ik herinner een prettige herinnering aan Lisette Danckaert en wil er graag over nadenken of ik iets aardigs voor haar kan schrijven. Ik kom er op terug
groet Henk van der Heijden
----- Original Message -----
From: Wouter Bracke <wouter.bracke@kbr.be> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: [MapHist] Festschrift Lisette Danckaert


> Dear all,
>
> Next year, Lisette Danckaert, former head of our Map Room and as you all
> know still very active, will become 75. Her former colleagues at the
> Royal Library of Belgium would like to offer her a Festschrift on the
> occasion. The volume should only contain original articles on (the
> history of) cartography of about 15 pages long. It would be published by
> the Belgian Association of Librarians and Archivists. Deadline for the
> articles: September 2005. Everyone interested in contributing to this
> volume can write to me: Wouter Bracke, Map Room, Royal Library of
> Belgium, Keizerslaan 4, 1000 Brussels, fax 0032 2 5195742; tel. 0032 2
> 5195743.
> Hope to hear from you all,
>
> Wouter Bracke
> Map Room
> Royal Library of Belgium
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:51:28 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Joel Kovarsky <jsk@gamewood.net>
Subject: [MapHist] Follow the Drinking Gourd
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
There is a rather nice site, put together by the planetariums of the New Jersey State Museum and Raritan Valley Community College: <http://www.madison.k12.wi.us/planetarium/ftdg1.htm>. Part 3 gives various references, perhaps all well known to Mr. Bresler, but I thought I'd point out the site.

                Joel Kovarsky

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Morzerbruyns, Willem" <wmorzerbruyns@scheepvaartmuseum.nl>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] looking for
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:19:06 +0100 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear Group,
I am looking for information on one captain Jean Bertrand, hydrographer of the chart titled Nieuwe Paskaart van de Kusten van West Indien, of the eastern Caribbean sea, and published by Johannes van Keulen in Amsterdam in the 1730s.
Catherine Hofmann and Alain Morgat have already searched for me in their respective archives for this name, however, without success.
I would be grateful for any additional help.
Kind regards,
Willem Mörzer Bruyns
 

Nederlands Scheepvaartmuseum Amsterdam / Netherlands Maritime Museum Amsterdam
Kattenburgerplein 1
1018 KK Amsterdam
Netherlands

tel. +31 20 52 32 222 
Internet: www.scheepvaartmuseum.nl
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] looking for
From: brink@geog.uu.nl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Cc: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Willem

Maybe it is Jan Bertrand. Van der AA (Biografisch Woordenboek, Vol. 4, p.
68) mentions him as the captain of a Dutchtrading vessel in the 1730s. He was the father-in-law of Jan Esdre, who was a professor at the university of Franeker.

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: palsky@pop3.univ-paris12.fr
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:00:21 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Palsky <palsky@univ-paris12.fr>
Subject: [MapHist] Colloquium in Paris
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<html>
The French Committee of Cartography organizes in connection with the French National Library, its annual colloquium, &quot;Cartographier la Mer&quot; (mapping the Sea), on January 13th, 2005. All the details below.<br>
<br>
<font size=3>Jeudi 13 janvier 2005 <br> 9h30/18h00<br>
Bibliothčque nationale de France<br>
Petit Auditorium / Hall est<br>
Site François Mitterrand<br>
<br>
Colloque <br>
Cartographier la mer<br>
<br>
organisé en partenariat&nbsp; avec le Comité Français de Cartographie*&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
Ce colloque met l’accent sur quelques étapes importantes de l’histoire des cartes marines. A la fin du XIIIe sičcle apparaissent des cartes pratiques, au service des navigateurs : les portulans. Ils s’appuient sur l’usage de la boussole et la détermination des caps de navigation. Le colloque en présente plusieurs exemples, d’époque et d’origine différentes : un atlas nautique italien du XVe sičcle ainsi que le portulan de Piri Reis, dessiné au XVIe sičcle dans l’empire ottoman.
<br>
Les interventions portent également sur l’époque contemporaine, avec la rénovation de la cartographie nautique par l’ingénieur hydrographe Charles de Beautemps Beaupré (1766-1854), les premiers développements de la cartographie des fonds sous-marins, qui aboutit ŕ l’entreprise de la carte bathymétrique des océans au début du XXe sičcle, et enfin la révolution des techniques de la cartographie nautique au cours des quarante derničres années. <br>
<br>
<br>
9h30 <br>
ouverture par Hélčne Richard, directrice du département des Cartes et plans de la BnF , commissaire de l‘exposition La Mer et Gilles Palsky, président de la commission &quot;Histoire de la Cartographie&quot; du Comité Français de Cartographie&nbsp; <br> <br>
9h45<br>
Méthode de Beautemps-Beaupré<br>
Par Olivier Chapuis<br>
<br>
10h15<br>
Une entreprise majeure de la cartographie océanique : la carte générale bathymétrique des océans<br>
par Jacqueline Carpine-Lancre<br>
<br>
Pause<br>
<br>
11h00<br>
La carte marine : 40 ans d'évolution. De la carte nationale ŕ la carte internationale numérique : une révolution<br> par Jean-Louis Bouet-Leboeuf<br>
<br>
11h30/12h <br>
Discussion<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
14h <br>
Un atlas retrouvé de Grazioso Benincasa : cartographie marine ŕ la fin du XVe sičcle d'aprčs les collections de la Bibliothčque nationale de France<br>
Par Emmanuelle Vagnon<br>
<br>
14h30<br>
Tradition et innovation dans la cartographie nautique manuscrite : l'atlas de la bibliothčque nationale (XVIe sičcle)<br> par Corradino Astengo <br>
<br>
15h00<br>
Sur le portulan de Piri-Reis<br>
par Jean-Louis Bacqué-Grammont<br>
<br>
15h30<br>
Les mers merveilleuses au Moyen-Age<br> par Christiane Deluz<br>
<br>
16h00 discussion<br>
<br>
16h30/17h30<br>
Visite de l’exposition La Mer par Hélčne Richard<br> <br>
L’entrée aux conférences est libre<br>
<br>
Pour toute information complémentaire, contacter:<br> Gilles Palsky, 01 45 17 11 47,
</font><font size=3 color="#0000FF">palsky@univ-paris12.fr<br> </font><font size=3>Hélčne Richard, 01 53 79 83 69, </font><font size=3 color="#0000FF">helene.richard@bnf.fr<br> <br>
</font><font size=3><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>* </font>Le Comité Français de Cartographie est l’organisme officiel représentant les cartographes français, professionnels et universitaires.
Site:
<a href="http://www.lecfc.freesurf.fr/" eudora="autourl">http://www.lecfc.freesurf.fr/</a><br> <br>
<br>
</html>

</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist-digest@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 10:01:03 -0500
From: "John Cloud" <John.Cloud@noaa.gov>
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist-digest@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Re: Follow the Drinking Gourd
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

(1) As others have noted, the hydrology of the Ohio is such that it never runs near dry.  It does ice over in winter, however, and before the dam era partial melting could cause ice jams that would partially dam the river before releasing, sometimes catastrophically.  There is a famous scene in Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin" in which Eliza and her daughter, pursued by slave-hunters' hounds, cross the Ohio on ice floes in the river.

(2) There is another vaguely cartographic connection to the Underground Railroad, involving speculation on clandestine signage and route information and signs for safe houses conveyed by otherwise innocuous clues that slaves would look for.  These included patterns on quilts left visible to travellers.  The major source on this is:

Hidden in Plain View: a Secret Story of Quilts and the Underground Railroad
by Jacqueline L. Tobin (Author), Raymond G. Dobard (Author) -- 
            _   _
           (o) (o)
     oOOO----(_)----OOOo---
         John Cloud
   Geographer/Writer/Editor
     NOAA Central Library
    1315 East-West Highway
   SSMC-3, 2nd Floor, E/OC4
   Silver Spring, MD 20910
   301-713-2607,  ext. 126
     John.Cloud@noaa.gov

             aussi:
     Chez Cloud Urbanique
     1915 Kalorama Rd. NW
            Apt. 603
     Washington, DC 20009
          202-277-4931
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.UU.NL
Subject: [MapHist] Nancy Kandoian wins award
To: maphist@geog.UU.NL, maps-l@listserv.uga.edu
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4  June 8, 2000
From: ahudson@nypl.org
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:49:17 -0500
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.11  |July 24, 2002) at
 12/09/2004 04:49:19 PM
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

It is a pleasure to announce to all of you that Nancy Kandoian, Senior Map Cataloger, Map Division, NYPL, has won the Bertha Franklin Feder award given to two outstanding staff members each year. Portions of the following nominating document were read today in a ceremony in NYPL President LeClerc's office.


                              Nancy Kandoian
                  Nominee for Bertha Franklin Feder Award
                              September 2004


Nancy Kandoian is one of the country's premier map catalogers. She has a chapter in Maps and Related Cartographic Materials, Cataloging, Classification, and Bibliographic Control, Haworth Press, 1999.  She makes maps more accessible to the public through her own cataloging, teaching others about cataloging practices, writing for publications, and participating in professional activities.  She is an outstanding, talented employee and a gracious, hard-working colleague.

Despite having a Masters in Library Science from Rutgers, Nancy began her career at The New York Public Library as a technical assistant in the Map Division because she wanted to work with cartographic materials as research tools.  Her BA was in geography, and she wanted to combine that undergraduate area of interest with her library work.  She soon was promoted to a Librarian I/II position as the Senior Map Cataloger.  Nancy's efforts to catalog and make accessible the many maps of New York City and its neighboring communities, in order to serve the public need for information, has been strong and continuous.  New York City maps have priority for acquisitions and cataloging, as the Map Division endeavors to meet the needs of its local constituency.  After several years as a cataloger at the beginning level, Nancy was promoted to Librarian III in 1982.

Nancy's 20+ years of map cataloging have brought some 10,000 maps to the public's eye, via CATNYP and the union catalogs RLIN and OCLC.  The integration of these formerly little known materials into the national databases brings NYPL map collections to the attention and accessibility of researchers around the world.  She is sensitive to the access issues of the public, since she also assists the public at the reference desk, and this enhances her cataloging and its goal of increased access to Library materials via useful subject headings.  Nancy's cataloging is particularly notable for the innumerable notations to further sources for research on particular antique maps, a feature that is of great interest and use to scholars and researchers.

When the Map Division received a multi-million dollar map collection as a gift, Nancy eagerly began the intricate process of cataloging hundreds of antiquarian maps.  A totally different sort of work, most often generating original records, not copy cataloging, antiquarian cataloging is time consuming, but Nancy finds great pleasure in the beauty of the materials.
She made certain that many maps from this gift appeared in CATNYP soon after they were acquired, so that the gift is now accessible to researchers nearby and also known via the Internet to researchers around the world.
Nancy wrote about her antiquarian map cataloging experiences in an article for the American Library Association's Map & Geography Round Table journal Meridian 13, 1998 and also in Cataloging & Classification Quarterly, Summer 1999, and Maps and Related Materials?, in order to share her hard won expertise with other map catalogers.  Prior to these publications she had shared her love of Maine and Mt. Desert Island with a long bibliographic essay, "'Supreme and Distinctive' on the East Coast: The Mapping of Acadia National Park," published in Exploration and Mapping of the National Parks for A.L.A.'s Map & Geography Round Table Occasional Papers Series, No. 4, 1994. She was awarded a one week research grant from the American Geographical Society in Milwaukee, enabling her to use their research collections as she develops a cartographic reference tool for Armenian genealogical studies.

 Her current long term research involves the use of early map resources to enable Armenians to do intensive family history and research centered on their former homelands now in Turkish hands. She uses older maps which still have Armenian terminology, along with older gazetteers, to locate and identify villages and other geographic and political areas, which now have non-Armenian names and identities. Her goal is to create a website and/or a book to serve as an aid to research in the lost history of Armenia.



A recent outstanding achievement has been Nancy's cataloging of over 1,400 maps and atlases in 2002-3, to fulfill the requirements of a NEH grant.
Nancy cataloged antique maps of the Middle Atlantic colonies and states up to 1850 and taught and then supervised another staff member assigned to the project.  As maps were cataloged, they were forwarded to the conservation lab for treatment and then to the digital imaging lab for scanning for the Library's digital repository.  Nancy contributed hours and hours of her own time to make sure deadlines were met and maps were cataloged properly so they could go to the next step of the process.  The end result of this hard work is now the "American Shores" website. It focuses on these early maps of the Middle Atlantic region, from New York south to Virginia, providing CATNYP links and digital imagery of hundreds of maps from NYPL's collections. Without Nancy's diligence and professionalism, the website would be of little account.

In addition to cataloging, Nancy also works at the reference desk in the Map Division, answering in person, on the phone and occasionally by letter or email, all sorts of cartographic reference enquiries.  She is rarely stumped by questions, and can assist with research topics that range from finding a shtetl in Poland to abandoned subway tunnels in 1930s New York.
In a single afternoon, Nancy may help one researcher discover the paths of old underground waterways flooding basements and construction sites in Manhattan while assisting another Library user in finding the exact location of the address of her grandfather's jewelry store on Jane Street in the 1880s.

Within the Library she has served on a variety of cataloging committees and taskforces, bringing to the book-oriented discussions the perspective of the non-book cataloger.  Nationally, she  chairs the  ALA Map and Geography Round Table Cataloging and Classification Committee. Her expert knowledge has been called upon via the map library and librarians electronic discussion list, "Maps-L."  Nancy has also shared her map cataloging expertise by consulting with and advising map collections at the New-York Historical Society and the Osher Library at the University of Southern Maine.

She has given  remarkably practical and useful two-hour workshops on map cataloging to students from Pratt School of Library and Information Science over the last three summers, in the Map Librarianship course taught by Map Division Chief Alice Hudson. Nancy is a natural teacher, able to bring to life, in an interesting way, the fundamentals of map cataloging as they differ from those for geographies and atlases.

Nancy is a most wonderful colleague; she is generous, courteous, mannerly, and kind.  She is precise and careful in her work, but open to new and exciting programs, as in the digital efforts described above, teaching map cataloging to others, serving on ALA cataloging committees, training and guiding fellow staff, and always, always being a guide and inspiration for her colleagues as well as her supervisors.


Respectfully submitted by
Alice C. Hudson
Chief, Map Division, NYPL





Alice C. Hudson
Chief, Map Division
The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library
5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117
New York, NY 10018-2788

ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027

http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html

The true meaning of life is to plant trees,
          under whose shade you do not expect to sit.
                                            - Nelson Henderson



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "wangziqiang" <wzq@cnpitc.com.cn>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Beijing Historical Maps
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:23:18 +0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=gb2312"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>DO NOT USE YOUR EMAIL REPLY FUNCTION TO RESPOND TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.<BR>MAKE SURE ANY MESSAGE COMES TO ME AND IS NOT SENT TO THE ENTIRE LIST<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I am pleased to announce that the Capital Library (China) has finished the compilation of ˇ°The Collection of Beijing Historical Mapsˇ±, and it will be published just before the end of this year. The collection contains about 700 ancient and old maps out of more than 100 literatures and is compiled into 4 volumes according to mapping areas and themes.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Next to the National Library of China, the Capital Library is the largest public library in the municipality of Beijing.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Wang Ziqiang</FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><A 
href="mailto:wangmap@yahoo.com.cn">wangmap@yahoo.com.cn</A></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> </x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:33:42 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: hgolden@terrapartners.com
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

 Dear all
 In cataloging some Holy Land maps I came across two different copies of the Montanus Jerusalem from the Polygot, (Poortman 33, Delano Smith fig.
65, p. 125, Laor 945) but each is diferent and would appreciate some assistance in getting a clear picture of where they came from.

1. first vairant does not have the italics in the title cartouche, the Polyglot edition has the last line, running into the 6th line in italics.
On the top right, inside the plate is "Appendix Col. 597" so it does not appear to be the Antiquitatum Judaicarum, noted in Laor which is supposed to be between pages 68-69. It is a re-engraving of the polyglot plate.

2. A copy of the map, new plate, translated into what I thought was Swedish, with the title on the bottom sixth of the map, "I E R V S A L E M / AFRITATH EFTR SOM SKRIBENTERNES BERETTELSE SEMER / SIGH MEDH THES TOMTA STELLEN"  No mention of Montanus.  It is a new plate, not the Polyglot or the other one aobve, but 95% copies the Montanus. Below the cartouche, almost hidden away is a large "V" and then what appears to be "fm" to the right of that, and below that "F. ex."

3. Does anyone know the number of editions and sizes of the Polyglot since I also have two other copies, one of which is polyglot with the text on the back,and another on the exact same plate as the pologlot map, appears to be a full page sheet from the bible, but much smaller and without any text on the reverse.

Any thoughts or directions on identfying these various copies would be appreciated, Howard Golden, hgolden@terrapartners.com



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:15:17 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: brink@geog.uu.nl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

L.s.

Obviously the best printed source for answering this question is T.H.
Darlow's and H.F. Moule's  "Historical Catalogue of the printed Editions of Holy Scripture in the Library of the British and Foreign Bible Society" (London, 1903-1911). A catalogue of almost 9.900 Bible-editions.
Another, interesting source is the ongoing Biblia Sacra project: http://www.bibliasacra.nl/ an electronic bibliography allowing its users to request information (text and reproductions) on thousand's of bibles printed in the Netherlands and Belgium from 1477 to 1600.

Then ofcourse you should not forget that the plates and maps from the Polyglot were used for some other works as well, for instance the dutch edition of John Pearson's "Critici Sacri: sive Annotata doctissimorum virorum in Vetus ac Novum Testamentum" (Amsterdam, 1698). In his work Pearson brought together texts by Erasmus, Sebastian Münster, Joannes Drusius, Isaac Casaubon, Edward Brerewood, Kaspar Waser, Hugo Grotius, Petrus Cunaeus, Joseph Scaliger, Johannes Cloppenburg, James Ussher, Benedictus Arias Montanus ect. Volume 6 (of 8) is dedicated to the work of Montanus and contains plates and maps used for the polyglot, some however with typographic and artistic alterations such as proven by the world map (cf. Shirley 125 and his corrigenda). I is quite possible that the Montanus-maps were used for the earlier (London 1660), or German (Francfurt 1696) editions as well, chiefly because of the strong geographic and cartographical content of his texts. Perhaps you will find relevant information in Lowndes or, most likely, Allibone.

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: [24.193.81.85]
X-Originating-Email: [rhekier@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: rhekier@hotmail.com
From: "Ron Hekier" <rhekier@hotmail.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:36:18 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2004 16:37:00.0671 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDC580F0:01C4E068]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Howard,
I too was going to suggest reviewing John Pearson's "Critici Sacri..." There is a dealer in the Netherlands with the 9 volume edition offered.  
Perhaps he would be so kind as to quickly research if the map is in that edition.  The proprietor seemed extremely pleasant the time I met him at the Paris Map Fair.  (Google the edition to find him.)

Ron Hekier

>From: brink@geog.uu.nl
>Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
>Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:15:17 +0100 (CET)
>
>L.s.
>
>Obviously the best printed source for answering this question is T.H.
>Darlow's and H.F. Moule's  "Historical Catalogue of the printed Editions
>of Holy Scripture in the Library of the British and Foreign Bible Society"
>(London, 1903-1911). A catalogue of almost 9.900 Bible-editions.
>Another, interesting source is the ongoing Biblia Sacra project:
>http://www.bibliasacra.nl/ an electronic bibliography allowing its users
>to request information (text and reproductions) on thousand's of bibles
>printed in the Netherlands and Belgium from 1477 to 1600.
>
>Then ofcourse you should not forget that the plates and maps from the
>Polyglot were used for some other works as well, for instance the dutch
>edition of John Pearson's "Critici Sacri: sive Annotata doctissimorum
>virorum in Vetus ac Novum Testamentum" (Amsterdam, 1698). In his work
>Pearson brought together texts by Erasmus, Sebastian Münster, Joannes
>Drusius, Isaac Casaubon, Edward Brerewood, Kaspar Waser, Hugo Grotius,
>Petrus Cunaeus, Joseph Scaliger, Johannes Cloppenburg, James Ussher,
>Benedictus Arias Montanus ect. Volume 6 (of 8) is dedicated to the work of
>Montanus and contains plates and maps used for the polyglot, some however
>with typographic and artistic alterations such as proven by the world map
>(cf. Shirley 125 and his corrigenda). I is quite possible that the
>Montanus-maps were used for the earlier (London 1660), or German
>(Francfurt 1696) editions as well, chiefly because of the strong
>geographic and cartographical content of his texts. Perhaps you will find
>relevant information in Lowndes or, most likely, Allibone.
>
>Paul van den Brink
>Explokart Research Team
>University of Utrecht
>The Netherlands
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:34:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: brink@geog.uu.nl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

L.s.

The name of the Dutch dealer is Asher rare books: http://www.asherbooks.com/.
You can email the owner Mr. M. Roos by emailing him on info@asherbooks.com

However he will confirm to you that it is not the map your looking for: The dutch editions of the Critici Sacra (I consulted the copy at the Utrecht University Library - WRT Vak 8, 276-284) contain a map of Jerusalem with the title: ANTIQVAE | IERVSALEM | VERA ICONGRAPHIA AD SACRAE | LECTIONIS PRAE CIPVE ET ALLIARVM | DE ILLA VRBE HISTORIAR. EXPLI: | CATIONEM EX COLLATIONE AVTHO: | RVM RVINARVM SITVIPSO. – 28,5x20 cm. – Ciphers [1-37] explained under the map. – At the top right: Tab. IV. – Opposing p. 189.

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:04:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: hgolden@terrapartners.com
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Well Prof. van den Brink, I certainly thank you for going to the libray on a Sunday to look this up!! I will continue searching, but do you think that the other map is in old Swedish or do you recognize the language? 
Howard Golden
>
> The name of the Dutch dealer is Asher rare books:
> http://www.asherbooks.com/.
> You can email the owner Mr. M. Roos by emailing him on info@asherbooks.com
>
> However he will confirm to you that it is not the map your looking for:
> The dutch editions of the Critici Sacra (I consulted the copy at the
> Utrecht University Library - WRT Vak 8, 276-284) contain a map of
> Jerusalem with the title: ANTIQVAE | IERVSALEM | VERA ICONGRAPHIA AD
> SACRAE | LECTIONIS PRAE CIPVE ET ALLIARVM | DE ILLA VRBE HISTORIAR. EXPLI:
> | CATIONEM EX COLLATIONE AVTHO: | RVM RVINARVM SITVIPSO. – 28,5x20 cm. –
> Ciphers [1-37] explained under the map. – At the top right: Tab. IV. –
> Opposing p. 189.
>
> Paul van den Brink
> Explokart Research Team
> University of Utrecht
> The Netherlands
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:58:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: brink@geog.uu.nl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Howard

In fact I spent the afternoon with 75.000 other spectators at the Amsterdam Arena watching a fantastic match.
I took the information on the Utrecht edition of the Critici Sacri from one of my research projects "Map in Dutch books and magazines before 1850", which will take a few more years to complete.

In my files (ca. 12.000 maps) I found ca. 80 maps of Jerusalem, some of them from bibles, most of them from other textsources. Your map is not included in my files, so I can say with certainty that it does not originates from a Dutch publication.

Reading the text I presume your map is of a Scandinavic orign, probably Danish. I suggest that you consult the OPAC's from the National libraries in Scandinavia for further information.
For Denmark http://www.kb.dk/index-en.htm, for Norway the Bysys-catalogue http://www.bibsys.no/english.html and for Sweden the Libris-catalogue http://dijkstra.libris.kb.se/english/home.html

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:16:48 +0200
From: Karen Pinto <kp02@aub.edu.lb>
To: "maphist@geog.uu.nl" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Hello from out-of-the-wild-blue-yonder!
User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.3
X-Originating-IP: 192.168.166.3
X-AUBnet-Receipt: nemo.aub.edu.lb at 2004-12-13 19:16:48
X-AUBnet-Osender: kp02@aub.edu.lb
X-AUBnet-Receipt: europanew.aub.edu.lb at 2004-12-13 20:16:48
X-AUBnet-Osender: kp02@aub.edu.lb
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear Andrew,

I am so so so sorry for being so remiss in staying in touch for so long!
As you know I had a baby and then moved to Beirut to take up a teaching position at the American University.  Needless to say its been an insanely hectic two years with a young baby and a new job.  I descended into an endless maze of work and family obligations from which I am only now finally satrting to emerge!  Finally after 2 years, I have taught all the required courses once and by next semester I will be really coasting and back to focusing on my work. 
Plus Safi is almost 3 (next March) and this is already making a huge difference.  Some time soon, I hope (;->), I will find time to finish up those very overdue BL orders!!!

Right now I am writing to ask if you would be willing to put L. 33 of it towards a payment I need to make to the BL for a photograph that I have used in an about-to-be-published article.  I recd. permission from the appropriate dept.
and now I have a form that I have to sign and accompany with the requisite no.
of British pounds.  Suddenly I remembered the L. 90 I saved with you and I was wondering if I could send the form to you to forward to the Repro. Permissions dept. with the required amount.

Please let me know and also send me your mailing address.
As a much overdue treat I will send you a copy of my article on the Mediterranean that came out a couple of months ago.

In case you want to know more about me and see pics. of my daughter,  you can check out my on-going web-page.  I haven't released it publicly yet bec. I have yet to work out the matter of permission to use the map images!  Just obtaining them for articles is expensive enough!

I hope all is well on your end and that you are gearing up for a happy X'mas and New Year!

All the very best,
Karen Pinto

http://staff.aub.edu.lb/~kp02/
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:46:56 +0200
From: Karen Pinto <kp02@aub.edu.lb>
To: "maphist@geog.uu.nl" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Hello from out-of-the-wild-blue-yonder!
User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.3
X-Originating-IP: 192.168.166.3
X-AUBnet-Receipt: nemo.aub.edu.lb at 2004-12-13 19:46:56
X-AUBnet-Osender: kp02@aub.edu.lb
X-AUBnet-Receipt: europanew.aub.edu.lb at 2004-12-13 20:46:56
X-AUBnet-Osender: kp02@aub.edu.lb
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear Maphisters,

Please accept my apologies.  The letter was a private e-mail that I sent by accident to the whole list!!!

I guess we are all destined to make this error at some point.

Please delete.

Thanks,
Karen Pinto
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:46:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [MapHist] removal of old, established and derisive place-names
From: "Peter van der Krogt" <p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

------------------------- Oorspronkelijk bericht ------------------------- Onderwerp: BOUNCE maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl:     Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 1 Van:       owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Datum:     Ma, 13 december, 2004 7:43 pm Aan:       maphist-approval@pop.geog.uu.nl --------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl  Mon Dec 13 19:43:40 2004 Return-Path: <owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl> X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Not distributed automatically because of the word s u b scribe in the first lines.

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:43:26 -0500
From: jsk@gamewood.net

The following link discusses a recent example of this issue, pertaining to the use of the term 'squaw' on many Oregon place-names (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/11/national/11squaw.html?8hpib). You need to s u b scribe to see this. I was a bit curious if anyone has studied a spectrum of place-name issues of this sort.

               Joel Kovarsky






_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Gowrie Galleries" <maps@sydney.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:48:28 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Paul,

In the edition I have of Shirley's book, the later editions of Montanus' world map are noted, however the source is not.
Are you saying that one of those variants was published in Pearson's book, and if so, do you know which one?

Thanks

Simon Dewez
maps@sydney.net
Gowrie Galleries
316 Oxford Street
Woollahra  2025  NSW
Australia
ph: (61 2) 9387 4581
fax: (61 2) 9389 0640
www.gowrie-galleries.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: <brink@geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus


> L.s.
>
> Obviously the best printed source for answering this question is T.H.
> Darlow's and H.F. Moule's  "Historical Catalogue of the printed Editions
> of Holy Scripture in the Library of the British and Foreign Bible Society"
> (London, 1903-1911). A catalogue of almost 9.900 Bible-editions.
> Another, interesting source is the ongoing Biblia Sacra project:
> http://www.bibliasacra.nl/ an electronic bibliography allowing its users
> to request information (text and reproductions) on thousand's of bibles
> printed in the Netherlands and Belgium from 1477 to 1600.
>
> Then ofcourse you should not forget that the plates and maps from the
> Polyglot were used for some other works as well, for instance the dutch
> edition of John Pearson's "Critici Sacri: sive Annotata doctissimorum
> virorum in Vetus ac Novum Testamentum" (Amsterdam, 1698). In his work
> Pearson brought together texts by Erasmus, Sebastian Münster, Joannes
> Drusius, Isaac Casaubon, Edward Brerewood, Kaspar Waser, Hugo Grotius,
> Petrus Cunaeus, Joseph Scaliger, Johannes Cloppenburg, James Ussher,
> Benedictus Arias Montanus ect. Volume 6 (of 8) is dedicated to the work of
> Montanus and contains plates and maps used for the polyglot, some however
> with typographic and artistic alterations such as proven by the world map
> (cf. Shirley 125 and his corrigenda). I is quite possible that the
> Montanus-maps were used for the earlier (London 1660), or German
> (Francfurt 1696) editions as well, chiefly because of the strong
> geographic and cartographical content of his texts. Perhaps you will find
> relevant information in Lowndes or, most likely, Allibone.
>
> Paul van den Brink
> Explokart Research Team
> University of Utrecht
> The Netherlands
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:48:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
From: brink@geog.uu.nl
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Simon,

I just had a glance on Shirley's decription and compared it with the descriptions provided by Poortman/Augusteijn. On this information I conclude that the world map in Pearson's book is a new state of the Montanus world map. Please note that I'm not an expert in early Dutch cartography, nor on Dutch world maps in particular so I might be wrong.

The title of the world map in Pearson's Critici Sacri reads:

BENEDICT ARIAS MONTANUS SACRAE GEOGRAPHIAE TABULAM EX ANTQUISSIMORUM CULTOR FAMILIIS A MOSE RECENSITIS: AD | SACRORUM LIBROR. EXPLICANDOR COMMODITATEM ANTVVERPIAE IN PHILIPPI REGIS CATHOLICI GRATIAM DESCRIBEBAT Aş MDLXXI. – 34x50 cm. – World map in two hemispheres. - Top right: TAB.
I. – Between p. 152/153.

I derived the information on the geographical and artistic content of the world map from the description of Pearson's Critici Sacri provided on the website of Asher Books: "The world map shows how the world was repopulated by Noah’s three sons after the flood (see Shirley 125 and his corrigenda).
The lovely scenes of the Garden of Eden and the Flood in the margins of the present version do not appear on any of the earlier ones".

I hope I answered your question

Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands




_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:09:32 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Rodney Shirley's email address
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
(Majordomo had some problems with this message: it contained to much names in the to-field and too much "illegal" words. Peter)

From: "Rodney Shirley" <rodneyws@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:25:12 -0000

Please note that my email a d d r e s s will very shortly be c h a n g e d to rodneyws@dial.pipex.com

My previous email (rws@dial.pipex.com) will continue to be operative for a few more days but will then be deleted. My apologies to anyone
  who might have received this message twice, but in some cases the
  first circular sending didn't seem to be transmitted.

Rodney Shirley
rodneyws@dial.pipex.com 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:26:36 -0500
From: jsk@gamewood.net
Subject: [MapHist] Google to be adding searchable database of major world libraries
To: MapHist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

This was a headliner in today's New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/technology/14google.html?hp&ex=1103086800&en=9d5c79b92752adff&ei=5094&partner=homepage>

The projections are very ambitious, though will likely take a decade or two for major implementation.

        Joel Kovarsky
		
		
		
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:34 -0500
From: John Woram <john@woram.com>
Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province. 
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: cobb@pop.fas.harvard.edu
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:38:41 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: David Cobb <cobb@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google to be adding searchable database of major
  world libraries
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>

Joel -

You are correct. With 15 million volumes here at Harvard, and admittedly duplicates will be found at other locations, it will be awhile before our entire book collection is available through Google. The Harvard prototype project will involve ca. 40,000 volumes and most will come from our remote storage Harvard Depository. At the moment, maps are not planned to be included.

David Cobb

At 10:26 AM 12/14/2004, you wrote:
>This was a headliner in today's New York Times 
><http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/technology/14google.html?hp&ex=1103086800&en=9d5c79b92752adff&ei=5094&partner=homepage>
>
>The projections are very ambitious, though will likely take a decade or 
>two for major implementation.
>
>         Joel Kovarsky
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info

*************************************************************************** David A. Cobb                                   Tel. 617.495.2417 Harvard Map Collection                          FAX  617.496.0440 Harvard College Library                         Email: cobb@fas.harvard.edu Cambridge, MA 02138                             HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps ************************** VERITAS **************************************** 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Gowrie Galleries" <maps@sydney.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:36:14 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear Paul,

You have indeed answered my question perfectly. Thank you for that.

All the best

Simon
maps@sydney.net
Gowrie Galleries
316 Oxford Street
Woollahra  2025  NSW
Australia
ph: (61 2) 9387 4581
fax: (61 2) 9389 0640
www.gowrie-galleries.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: <brink@geog.uu.nl>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus


> Simon,
>
> I just had a glance on Shirley's decription and compared it with the
> descriptions provided by Poortman/Augusteijn. On this information I
> conclude that the world map in Pearson's book is a new state of the
> Montanus world map. Please note that I'm not an expert in early Dutch
> cartography, nor on Dutch world maps in particular so I might be wrong.
>
> The title of the world map in Pearson's Critici Sacri reads:
>
> BENEDICT ARIAS MONTANUS SACRAE GEOGRAPHIAE TABULAM EX ANTQUISSIMORUM
> CULTOR FAMILIIS A MOSE RECENSITIS: AD | SACRORUM LIBROR. EXPLICANDOR
> COMMODITATEM ANTVVERPIAE IN PHILIPPI REGIS CATHOLICI GRATIAM DESCRIBEBAT
> Aş MDLXXI. - 34x50 cm. - World map in two hemispheres. - Top right: TAB.
> I. - Between p. 152/153.
>
> I derived the information on the geographical and artistic content of the
> world map from the description of Pearson's Critici Sacri provided on the
> website of Asher Books: "The world map shows how the world was repopulated
> by Noah's three sons after the flood (see Shirley 125 and his corrigenda).
> The lovely scenes of the Garden of Eden and the Flood in the margins of
> the present version do not appear on any of the earlier ones".
>
> I hope I answered your question
>
> Paul van den Brink
> Explokart Research Team
> University of Utrecht
> The Netherlands
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: 66.44.54.118
X-URL: http://mail2web.com/
From: "mandraki@erols.com" <mandraki@erols.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:19:48 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2004 23:19:48.0706 (UTC) FILETIME=[67DE7C20:01C4E233]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

If you find one, please let us know on MapHist.  Oddly enough I know this place. It's not a part of Spain that gets visited much, but it's one of my favorite areas, so would appreciate knowing what you were able to find.

Bert Johnson


Original Message:
-----------------
From: John Woram john@woram.com
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:34 -0500
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province. 
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:29:39 -0500
From: John Woram <john@woram.com>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Bert Johnson wrote: "If you find one, please let us know on MapHist.  Oddly enough I know this place. [Berlanga de Duero]"

Bert, I'll make a note of your address and I'll be glad to let you know what I find (if anything). It's a bit of a long shot here on the list, but I'll hope somebody has some info. Otherwise I'll try elsewhere.

John

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Esther Guggenheim <estherg@savion.cc.huji.ac.il>
To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Jerusalem Map by Montanus
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:24:58 +0200
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

You can view images of most of the Jerusalem maps of the Laor Collection on the site Ancient Maps of Jerusalem (http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/jer/).

We have two copies of Arias' map. They are identical except for the bibliographic details of the source and the 1593 edition has no text  on verso (stated falsely on the web, being corrected asp) and the letter D, numbering of the maps in the book, printed below the map.

Hope this is of use for this problem or future inquiries on maps held in our collection.
Esther 

 
-----------------------------
Esther Guggenheim
Eran Laor Cartographic Collection
The Jewish National and University Library The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
P.O.B. 39105
Givat Ram, Jerusalem 91390
Israel
 
Tel. ++972-2-658 5050
estherg@savion.cc.huji.ac.il <mailto:estherg@savion.cc.huji.ac.il>  
http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/jer/

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Modern map maker 
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:36:26 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0451-1, 12/14/2004), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

   The Tredyffrin Easttown History Club (soon, with luck, to be the Tredyffrin Easttown Historical Society) is tentataively planning on a field trip to Franklin Maps in King of Prussia on 17 April 2005.  While vast hordes from the map societies of NYC and DC areas could not be accommodated, we might be able to slip in a couple from each.  As the program gets firmed up, details will be sent to the list and to John Docktor.  The emphasis of the presentation is the production of the property atlases of the area.
There is also the hope that something written can be produced for the TREDYFFRIN EASTTOWN HISTORY QUARTERLY, but converting a show-and-tell presentation to a written article isn't always possible.

   All subject to the vagaries of fate, of course.

                J. B. Post

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:09:01 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist <list-owner@maphist.nl>)
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Non-member submission from [Agustin Hernando <agustinhernando@ub.edu>]

Yes, as you suggest, Berlanga is a very small village in the Duero o Douro=
  right bank.
In printed maps, you can have a look to the Gastaldi map of Spain (1544), = but I
assume it is not on it. Later, you can consult the Tomas Lopez map of Sori= a (1783),
but this if very 'modern' to you. In manuscript maps, sure will be in The = Escorial atlas,
from the period you wish.

Agustin Hernando
University of Barcelona


Date sent:      	Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:34 -0500 From:           	John Woram <john@woram.com> Subject:        	[MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain To:             	maphist@geog.uu.nl
Send reply to:  	maphist@geog.uu.nl

Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province. Coordinates are 41=B028' N and 2=B051' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Marcel van den Broecke" <info@orteliusmaps.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:38:33 +0100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
Dear John,

I am in the process of recording all placenames on all Ortelius atlas map and have already finished Ortelius Spain, my Ort nr. 25.

Berlanga (without de Duero) is on it at the correct location.

Marcel van den Broecke
Cartographica Neerlandica
tel. +31 30 2202 396
fax +31 30 2203 326
e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com
URL: www.orteliusmaps.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Woram" <john@woram.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province.
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:50:09 -0500
From: "Edward James Redmond" <ered@loc.gov>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

See also http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gnrlort.html ; click on the thumbnail; click on the thumbnail again and follow the "maps only" link to download the Hispania sheet from a 1507 edition

Ed Redmond
Reference Specialist
Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4650
(202) 707-8548
ered@loc.gov


>>> info@orteliusmaps.com 12/17/2004 9:38:33 AM >>> Dear John,

I am in the process of recording all placenames on all Ortelius atlas map and have already finished Ortelius Spain, my Ort nr. 25.

Berlanga (without de Duero) is on it at the correct location.

Marcel van den Broecke
Cartographica Neerlandica
tel. +31 30 2202 396
fax +31 30 2203 326
e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com 
URL: www.orteliusmaps.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Woram" <john@woram.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province.
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:53:16 -0500
From: "Edward James Redmond" <ered@loc.gov>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Sorry for the typo  - I meant to say 1570 edition.

Ed Redmond

>>> ered@loc.gov 12/17/2004 9:50:09 AM >>> See also http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gnrlort.html ; click on the thumbnail; click on the thumbnail again and follow the "maps only" link to download the Hispania sheet from a 1507 edition

Ed Redmond
Reference Specialist
Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4650
(202) 707-8548
ered@loc.gov 


>>> info@orteliusmaps.com 12/17/2004 9:38:33 AM >>> Dear John,

I am in the process of recording all placenames on all Ortelius atlas map and have already finished Ortelius Spain, my Ort nr. 25.

Berlanga (without de Duero) is on it at the correct location.

Marcel van den Broecke
Cartographica Neerlandica
tel. +31 30 2202 396
fax +31 30 2203 326
e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com 
URL: www.orteliusmaps.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Woram" <john@woram.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province.
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: F.Herbert@RGS.org
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:55:15 -0000
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Ed: 

Has LC a 1507 edition of Ortelius?  A pre-proof state?  Now this *really* ought to be up on the web!

Francis
f.herbert@rgs.org
http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections' - including some online catalogues]

-----Original Message-----
From: Edward James Redmond [mailto:ered@loc.gov] Sent: 17 December 2004 14:50
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain

See also http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gnrlort.html ; click on the thumbnail; click on the thumbnail again and follow the "maps only" link to download the Hispania sheet from a 1507 edition

Ed Redmond
Reference Specialist
Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4650
(202) 707-8548
ered@loc.gov


>>> info@orteliusmaps.com 12/17/2004 9:38:33 AM >>> Dear John,

I am in the process of recording all placenames on all Ortelius atlas map and have already finished Ortelius Spain, my Ort nr. 25.

Berlanga (without de Duero) is on it at the correct location.

Marcel van den Broecke
Cartographica Neerlandica
tel. +31 30 2202 396
fax +31 30 2203 326
e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com 
URL: www.orteliusmaps.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Woram" <john@woram.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


Now here's a long shot but, ...

I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province.
Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.

All leads welcome!

Thanks, John Woram

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:43:34 -0500
From: John Woram <john@woram.com>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>

>See also http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gnrlort.html ; click on the 
>thumbnail; click on the thumbnail again and follow the "maps only" link to 
>download the Hispania sheet

Thanks Ed! I found the image and it looks great.

Just FWIW, I initially could not open the MrSID image after saving it on my desktop (using XP Pro + SP2). However, images I created myself using my own MrSID Photo Edition open fine, and the Ortelius file opened on a different PC running Win98. I downloaded a newer version of the Express Viewer (ver 3.4.2) and that resolved the problem. Figured I'd mention this, just in case anyone else reports a similar problem.

John 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "Curt Griggs" <curt@oldmaps.com>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:51:31 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2004.12.16.22
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx-relay-01.mtntel.net id iBHBTtFK066303
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Marti - did you see this?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcel van den Broecke" <info@orteliusmaps.com> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain


> Dear John,
>
> I am in the process of recording all placenames on all Ortelius atlas map
> and have already finished Ortelius Spain, my Ort nr. 25.
>
> Berlanga (without de Duero) is on it at the correct location.
>
> Marcel van den Broecke
> Cartographica Neerlandica
> tel. +31 30 2202 396
> fax +31 30 2203 326
> e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com
> URL: www.orteliusmaps.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Woram" <john@woram.com>
> To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:20 PM
> Subject: [MapHist] Looking for early map showing village in Spain
>
>
> Now here's a long shot but, ...
>
> I'd like to locate a map (Ortelius era, or earlier) that shows the village
> of 'Berlanga de Duero' which is northeast of Madrid in the Soria province.
> Coordinates are 41°28' N and 2°51' W. The place may be too small to rate a
> place on the map, but it never hurts to ask.
>
> All leads welcome!
>
> Thanks, John Woram
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Nick Millea <nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk>
To: liber list <libergdc@nls.uk>, maphist-l <maphist@geog.uu.nl>,
	lis-maps <lis-maps@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Cc: "Ackland, Stuart" <sga@bodley.ox.ac.uk>,
	"Anstee, Ian" <ila@bodley.ox.ac.uk>,
	"James, Nigel" <nnj@bodley.ox.ac.uk>,
	"Rees, Mary" <mer@bodley.ox.ac.uk>,
	"Rose, Tessa" <tlr@bodley.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: [MapHist] Bellwood sentenced
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:53:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43)
X-Authentication: none
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear All,

Apologies for cross-posting

The BBC website has announced the sentencing of map thief Peter Bellwood. 

Details at:
	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4118631.stm
	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4117055.stm

Nick Millea
________________________________________________________

Nick Millea
Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG tel:      01865 287119
fax:     01865 277139
email: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk

homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ ________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:13:52 +0100
From: Dr.Zsolt Török <zoltorok@ludens.elte.hu>
Organization: Cartart FacTsimile Maps & Globes
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] ICHC 2005 
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dear MapHisters,

We are happy to announce the ICHC 2005 International Paper Selection Committee has made the final decision about the papers to be presented in the conference sessions and the proposals for the poster presentations.   
The Committee comprised recognized experts, whose different academic backgrounds, research interest and scholarly activities covered the scope of our inter- and multidisciplinary discipline, the history of cartography. 

The review process was 'blind' in nature, the committee members did not know who had submitted the proposal. On the other hand, the Committee decided to take the responsibility and make the list of its members public.
The selectors were:

Prof. Roger J. Kain, Chairman, Imago Mundi Director, Great Britain Dr. Gabor Gercsak, Eotvos University, Budapest, Hungary Prof. Ingrid Kretschmer, University of  Vienna, Austria Prof. Gyula Papay, University of Rostock, Germany Dr. Monique Pelletier, Imago Mundi Director, France Dr. Istvan Rakoczi, Eotvos University, Budapest, Hungary Dr. Zsolt Török, ICHC 2005 Co-ordinator, Hungary

Early December the Committee held a meeting in Budapest and made the decisions. These were made with regard solely to the relevancy and originality of each proposal, the author's were named after the the selection had been completed. 

The ICHC 2005 Academic Secretariat has been sending the letters of notification to all who submitted a proposal. Hopefully, we complete this task by Christmas and forward a small gift, the good news to many of you. Thank you once again for all submissions.

We are also delighted to see how many of you would like to participate.
As might be expected, not all proposals could find a place in the conference schedule, but we hope you will have the best presentations in Budapest. The preliminary program of the conference will be published on our web site after January 15, 2005.  

Those who would like to attend the 21st History of Conference please, do not forget to register at the cheaper Registration Fee until February 15, 2005. Registration information and forms are available at the conference
web pages: http.//lazarus.elte.hu/ichc2005.htm

With best wishes for the Christmas Season,

Zsolt 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ICHC 2005 ACADEMIC SECRETARIAT

Dr. Zsolt Torok, Co-ordinator
Ms. Krisztina Iras, Secretary

ichc2005@lazarus.elte.hu 
http.//lazarus.elte.hu/ichc2005.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:35:20 +0100
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: Peter van der Krogt <peter@vanderkrogt.net>
Subject: [MapHist] Ancient stone map
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
In De Telegraaf of 21 December 2004 a photo of a 4000 year old stone map was published, with the text (translated):

Ancient map

A piece of stone with cut out symbols, probably more than 4000 year old, was yesterday shown to the public by Neil Redfern of English Heritage. The piece of stone, probably depicting a map, is unique in Great Britain. It is discovered last year after a moorland fire had burnt a square mile of heath near Whitby.

(see for a scan of this article http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html )

I found more about this find at
http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART25261.html and
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146411964

Any thoughts about this find from a maphistorical point of view?

merry christmas and happy new year

Peter



YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt
Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115
3508 TC  UTRECHT, The Netherlands
e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net
Homepage: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/vanderkrogt> MapHist: <http://www.maphist.nl>
Genealogy: <http://www.vanderkrogt.net> Elementymology: <http://elements.vanderkrogt.net> Columbus Monuments: <http://columbus.vanderkrogt.net>

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:11:47 +0000
From: Doug Weller <dweller@ramtops.co.uk>
To: Peter van der Krogt <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ancient stone map
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Hi Peter,


Friday, December 24, 2004, 9:35:20 AM, you wrote:

PvdK> A piece of stone with cut out symbols, probably more than 4000 year old, PvdK> was yesterday shown to the public by Neil Redfern of English Heritage. The PvdK> piece of stone, probably depicting a map, is unique in Great Britain. It is PvdK> discovered last year after a moorland fire had burnt a square mile of heath PvdK> near Whitby.

And, without adequate examination, it's being reburied -- which to my mind is a bad and unsafe thing to do.  We may never know how it was carved, eg the tools used, was it all by one person, etc.   This has raised quite a fuss on the British Archaeology mailing list.

Doug

-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:05:23 -0500
From: jsk@gamewood.net
Subject: [MapHist] maps of New Netherlands
To: MapHist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

I had been looking at some reviews of Russell Shorto's "Island at the Center of the World", relating to the 17th century Dutch founding of New Netherlands, and the attendant history of Manhattan. In the process I came across a couple of nice image sites:

Maps (General)- <http://www.nnp.org/Maps_files/descriptions.htm>. These are images of a collection donated to Fordham Univ., I believe these were first shown in 2003, and were a gift to the University, from Bert Twaalfhoven.

Virtual Tour of New Netherlands-  <http://www.nnp.org/newvtour/index.html>. 

Pardon if these have already been reported to the list in the past, but I thought I'd call attention to these, given the popularity of Shorto's recent book.

          Joel Kovarsky
		
		
		
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: overlee@verizon.net
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] NYTimes.com Article: Antiques: A Northwest Passage to a Spanish Past 
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:06:14 -0500 (EST)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

The article below from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by overlee@verizon.net.


An exhibition of interest to maphisters and others.  Note that it is moving to West Palm Beach and that a catalogue is available.  Martin Torodash

overlee@verizon.net


/--------- E-mail Sponsored by Fox Searchlight ------------\

SIDEWAYS IS THE BEST PICTURE OF THE YEAR!


Critics in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Boston agree...
SIDEWAYS is the BEST PICTURE of the year. The award-winning film from Alexander Payne has also earned 7 GOLDEN GLOBE NOMINATIONS including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor and Best Screenplay. SIDEWAYS stars Paul Giamatti, Thomas Haden Church, Sandra Oh and Virginia Madsen.
SIDEWAYS is now playing in select theaters. Watch the trailer at:


http://www.foxsearchlight.com/sideways/index_nyt.html

\----------------------------------------------------------/


Antiques: A Northwest Passage to a Spanish Past

December 24, 2004
 By WENDY MOONAN 



 

A Northwest Passage 

To a Spanish Past 

Even know-it-alls will be surprised by the many revelations in "Spain in the Age of Exploration, 1492-1819," an exhibition at the Seattle Art Museum of more than 100 works of art and science, many on loan from Spain's royal collections and the Prado Museum. 

We learn that early 16th-century Spanish royals were models of austerity, that the crown designated new territories as provinces, not colonies, and tried to give legal rights to indigenous people. We see the earliest surviving map (dated 1500) of the New World, as well as scientific instruments, magnificent royal armor, manuscripts, sculptures and paintings by Bosch, Titian, El Greco, Bernini, Velázquez and Goya. 

The show was considered important enough to attract King Juan Carlos and Queen Sophia, who made their first visit to Seattle last month to see it. 

Many Americans are familiar with New Spain and the Spanish missions in California in the 18th century, but the Spanish crown began sending expeditions to the northwest coast of North America in the 1770's. Spain sent some 60 expeditions to the New World to expand its empire, spread the Catholic faith, trade goods and study indigenous cultures. 

It began with maps, some of which are in the show. 

"The
Spanish navy drafted hundreds of charts and maritime routes, and astronomically positioned ports, bays, capes and reefs from Alaska, the Strait of Juan de Fuca and California all the way to the Strait of Magellan, and from the Caribbean Islands and the Gulf of Mexico to Patagonia, along with the Philippines and some archipelagos in the Pacific," José de la Sota Ríus, author of a book on Spain's expeditions in the 1790's, writes in the catalog to this show. 

In the 1770's, Spain initiated the exploration of the coast north of California to investigate the rumors of a northwest passage between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans - and to check whether the Russians were expanding south through Alaska. The expedition commander, Juan Perez, left Mexico for the north Pacific in 1774, decades before Lewis and Clark. 

He was followed by the naturalist José Longino, who traveled from Baja California to San Diego, Santa Barbara, Monterey and San Francisco, describing the houses, customs, clothing and boats of California Indian tribes in his diaries. He sent zoological materials and medicinal plants back to Spain. 

The exhibition includes objects collected by the Spanish, including, from southeast Alaska, carved and painted battle helmets, musical instruments and baby rattles of the Tlingit tribe. 

In the 1780's, Spanish naval crews began bumping into British ships in the northwest, and after a minor incident the countries signed a treaty of nonaggression. In 1792, Francisco de la Bodega y Quadra left Mexico for his third expedition to the north to carry out the accord with the British captain George Vancouver on what came to be called Vancouver Island. 

He was accompanied by two naturalists, who studied the flora and fauna of Nootka Sound, drawing whatever they saw, including a Nootka chief wearing a woven fiber hat that depicts people harpooning whales (the drawing and the hat are in the show). They also compiled ethnographic descriptions of local cultures and a vocabulary of Indian words. 

"This account is undoubtedly one of the most remarkable testimonies about Northwest societies during the earliest moments of acculturation," Mr. de la Sota Ríus writes of the naturalists' publication. 

It may also explain why the Seattle Art Museum spent nearly three years on this show; it already has a renowned collection of northwest Native American art but is only beginning to explore its Spanish past. (The Spanish named the islands off Seattle the San Juan Islands, for example.)


Chiyo Ishikawa, the Seattle museum's chief curator of European painting and sculpture, organized the show with Javier Morales Vallejo, a curator at the Patrimonio Nacional in Madrid, which administers the royal collections (some 7,000 paintings, 2,500 sculptures, 2,000 tapestries, 3,000 weapons, carriages, royal ships and antiques from medieval times to the 19th century). Ms. Ishikawa did her dissertation on the collections. 

To emphasize the shared history of Spain and America, the curators focused on works dating from Columbus's voyage in 1492 to 1819, when John Quincy Adams signed the Transcontinental Treaty, by which Spain relinquished its claims to the northwestern United States and the Florida territories. 

The show opens with portraits and paintings owned by Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand, who made Spain a superpower (in fact, Ferdinand, who saw himself as a latter-day Alexander the Great, later became a model for Machiavelli's "Prince"). By their conquest of Grenada they ended the Moorish occupation of Spain, and they expelled Jews who refused to convert. Then they lent their support to Columbus. The show includes a letter the queen wrote to Columbus in 1494, asking for maps of his discoveries. 

Spain established cities, built churches and founded schools in its new provinces, beginning with a university in 1538 in Santo Domingo. Ferdinand issued the Laws of Burgos, the first legal code addressing how Spaniards should deal with indigenous people of the new world. They specifically prohibited the mistreatment of Indians (not successfully).It exported wheat, rice, beans, bananas, sugar cane and grapes to the New World and imported corn, tomatoes, cacao, strawberries and sweet potatoes from it, goods that are documented in beautifully detailed drawings in the show. 

Spanish royals considered portraits propaganda and had them copied and disseminated in the territories as substitutes for themselves. The early portraits are quite plain. 

"Indeed the absence of splendor in the image of the king is a decidedly distinctive characteristic of all official portraits of Spanish monarchs," Sarah Schroth, a curator at the Duke University Museum of Art, writes in the catalog. 

A portrait of Isabel from about 1497 shows her wearing a simple black dress and a cross, with a veil over her face.
She looks sad. "She is portrayed after the death of her only son and heir," Ms. Ishikawa said in an interview. "She was famously austere; at home she dressed as a nun and structured her day around the monastic hours." 

A later royal, Philip IV, commissioned a similarly simple, private portrait of himself by Velázquez in about 1623. "It was his first painting and was taken from life," Ms.
Ishikawa said. "He was hired as the court painter after doing it; he was almost the same age as the king, and they had a lifelong relationship." 

We see a different king in Velázquez's full-length effort: "Philip IV in Armor" of 1656. It depicts a proud, aloof king wearing all the proper motifs, like armor and a general's baton, to signify power. This is the official version. 

By 1700, the Bourbons had taken over the Spanish throne, and the portraits of royals look like their French counterparts. The kings look frivolous and extravagant in flowing white wigs and brocaded velvet jackets. "There was a complete transformation of style and fashion from the Habsburg to the Bourbon era," Ms. Ishikawa said. 

These are a few of the many revelations in this show, which closes Jan. 2. It opens at the Norton Museum of Art in West Palm Beach, Fla., on Feb. 2. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/arts/design/24xantiques.html?ex=1104997974&ei=1&en=9e3c1a86d0966a56


---------------------------------

Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like!
Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here:

http://homedelivery.nytimes.com/HDS/SubscriptionT1.do?mode=SubscriptionT1&ExternalMediaCode=W24AF



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com.  

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
From: "J.B. Post" <jbpost@netreach.net>
To: <Pantheism-L@listserv.aol.com>, <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
Subject: [MapHist] Greetings 
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:41:04 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0452-2, 12/23/2004), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

    HAPPY WESTERN EURO-CHRISTIAN CALENDAR NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
  b=qHq7LS/waQtCCXpd7/L6ytSeR8hZBsk8b9S5Z0r2zvHNKVWSO3yCUt1K1HAY275FPp46Im7qOxNm1F+1bDg0vny8v9Ww4Y/l7l9bAOhn9++me7KwZxRvjavf3/UfFYdZ2vxSQO//MQ7F1Y9vz2FdRZapUEkvVqp64Sd1XEcKh+o=  ;
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:21:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darryl A. Lansey" <d_lansey@yahoo.com>
Subject: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-html>
<DIV>BarnesandNoble.com has a great price on Norwich's Maps of Africa.&nbsp; B&amp;N is currently selling the book for $36.25 or about 75 percent off the usual cost of about $150.&nbsp; I don't know how long the sale will last, so hurry if you are interested.&nbsp; Regards, Darryl Lansey</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> 
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html">Yahoo! Mail</a> - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
</x-html>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:35:46 -0500
From: jsk@gamewood.net
Subject: [MapHist] Winter 2004-5 List: Reference Books & Miscellany
To: MapHist <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Please take a look at our Winter 2004-5 List: Reference Books (including facsimile atlases) and Miscellaneous Items: <http://www.theprimemeridian.com/list_page.doc>

DO NOT USE YOUR EMAIL REPLY FUNCTION TO RESPOND TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT. MAKE SURE ANY MESSAGE COMES TO ME AND IS NOT SENT TO THE ENTIRE LIST

Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian (www.theprimemeridian.com) tpm@theprimemeridian.com
		
		
		
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:36:29 -0800
Subject: [MapHist] Iran's Persian Gulf v. National Geographic Arabian Gulf
From: "James C. Jeffery III" <jefferyiii@earthlink.net>
To: <maphist@geog.uu.nl>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Dateline 20. December 2004 Iran

Iran unnveiled a collection of historical maps Sunday in a bid to prove the legitimacy of calling its neighboring sea the Persian Gulf instead of the "Arabian Gulf" as it also is listed in the new world atlas by National Geographic.

Does anyone have any information on this specific collection.  My request isn't about the pro's and cons of what to call the sea, just the collection.

Thanks and Happy New Year.


Jim Jeffery
PO Box 961
Los Gatos, CA 95031 USA 
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: 66.44.89.163
X-URL: http://mail2web.com/
From: "mandraki@erols.com" <mandraki@erols.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:05:45 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Dec 2004 18:05:45.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[59641AF0:01C4EF63]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Darryl

Thanks for the tip.  I found it when I got up this AM and was at my local B&N in Alexandria NLT 1030 but alas, too late.  They still had the listing in their computer but the last had been sold.  They checked other nearby stores for me as well to no avail.  But ya can't say I didn't try!

Bert (Johnson), WMS

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Darryl A. Lansey d_lansey@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:21:30 -0800 (PST) To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa


BarnesandNoble.com has a great price on Norwich's Maps of Africa.  B&N is currently selling the book for $36.25 or about 75 percent off the usual cost of about $150.  I don't know how long the sale will last, so hurry if you are interested.  Regards, Darryl Lansey

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:32:06 -0800
From: "Duane F. Marble" <marble.1@osu.edu>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
X-Spam-Rating: mail.oregonfast.net 0/1/N
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

<x-flowed>
I had no difficulty obtaining a copy through the B&N web site.

mandraki@erols.com wrote:

>Darryl
>
>Thanks for the tip.  I found it when I got up this AM and was at my local
>B&N in Alexandria NLT 1030 but alas, too late.  They still had the listing
>in their computer but the last had been sold.  They checked other nearby
>stores for me as well to no avail.  But ya can't say I didn't try!
>
>Bert (Johnson), WMS
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Darryl A. Lansey d_lansey@yahoo.com
>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:21:30 -0800 (PST)
>To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>Subject: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
>
>
>BarnesandNoble.com has a great price on Norwich's Maps of Africa.  B&N is
>currently selling the book for $36.25 or about 75 percent off the usual
>cost of about $150.  I don't know how long the sale will last, so hurry if
>you are interested.  Regards, Darryl Lansey
>
>		
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Dr. Duane F. Marble		Email:  marble.1@osu.edu 2226 Primrose Lane		Telephone: (541) 902-8837 Florence, OR  97439		Cell:  (541) 991-1730



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info </x-flowed>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
X-Originating-IP: 66.44.55.137
X-URL: http://mail2web.com/
From: "mandraki@erols.com" <mandraki@erols.com>
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:42:40 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Dec 2004 21:42:53.0056 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE7E7800:01C4EF81]
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl
Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl
Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
List-Info: http://www.maphist.info
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl

Apologies for sending my personal reply to Darryl, whom I know, via the maphist address.  I hadn't meant to do that, but since I did, and Duane had better luck, let me seek his assistance.  Duane, I tried their web site before going to the B&N store, and tried it again just now after reading your reply.  All I am getting under "Books" is a "not in stock" notice.  I did find it under "Out of Print" for the $241 price, but not at the reduced rate.  Did you find it under another category?  Thanks.

Bert

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Duane F. Marble marble.1@osu.edu
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:32:06 -0800
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa


I had no difficulty obtaining a copy through the B&N web site.

mandraki@erols.com wrote:

>Darryl
>
>Thanks for the tip.  I found it when I got up this AM and was at my local
>B&N in Alexandria NLT 1030 but alas, too late.  They still had the listing
>in their computer but the last had been sold.  They checked other nearby
>stores for me as well to no avail.  But ya can't say I didn't try!
>
>Bert (Johnson), WMS
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Darryl A. Lansey d_lansey@yahoo.com
>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:21:30 -0800 (PST)
>To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
>Subject: [MapHist] Great Price On Norwich's Maps of Africa
>
>
>BarnesandNoble.com has a great price on Norwich's Maps of Africa.  B&N is
>currently selling the book for $36.25 or about 75 percent off the usual
>cost of about $150.  I don't know how long the sale will last, so hurry if
>you are interested.  Regards, Darryl Lansey
>
>		
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
>the views of the author.
>List Information: http://www.maphist.info
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Dr. Duane F. Marble		Email:  marble.1@osu.edu 2226 Primrose Lane		Telephone: (541) 902-8837 Florence, OR  97439		Cell:  (541) 991-1730



_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .


_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info